Explosions at Brussels Airport
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Quite right OldLurker. However, unfortunately that is what will happen anyway, regardless. It is not a traditional symmetrical fight. This kind of battle cannot be won, history proves that, and the enemy knows this. All that can be done is to mitigate the impact and fervently hope that it dies away one day, just like the troubles with the IRA. Increased security at terminal entries has been done before and will have to happen again. There simply is no other answer in the short term.
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If anyone wants to repeat such events, they will regardless of any security measures, which are only designed to calm the fears of passengers, and certainly not to thwart such happenings. And don't tell me about Rome and Vienna, because three weeks after those events, I was able, without any sort of authority, to drive a friend in my little red French car on a Swiss airport, by a side road, park under the wing of a biz jet, deliver the person, go out of the airport, come back as something had been forgotten, park under the nose of said jet. All that without anything asked other than my ID for my non-aviation related work, crossing the path of a patrolling tank in full view of snipers. And what I have seen of the layout of airports while travelling is certainly not conducive to my feeling safe from these maniacs.
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The usual wild over-reaction. Stable door not only shut but guarded with great theatre - the whole of Brussels in lockdown, nationwide panic, neighboring countries increasing border checks (in the Schengen area!), etc. Brown people put in fear, randomly thrown off flights (e.g. Easyjet the other day), women in hijab spat at or worse, and so on. Just what the terrorists want.
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Quote
Now if we can move away from Religion and discuss other issues like airport security that would be far more constructive. end quote
Sadly either conversation would be equally constructive, in other words completely useless in achieving any resolution.
Now if we can move away from Religion and discuss other issues like airport security that would be far more constructive. end quote
Sadly either conversation would be equally constructive, in other words completely useless in achieving any resolution.
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I should think there are nowhere near enough trained sniffer dogs to adequately fulfill what may now be a change in policy regarding land-side terminal surveillance. Was told once a dog (and their handler) could earn £1000 a day as a sniffer - anyone able to verify that? Might be a use for useless mutt after all.
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ILS27LEFT deserves more attention, especially from people who can make it happen. His point boils down to a quick pre-screening at a place where an explosion would cause no headline-worthy damage, with controlled access from that point on. The only difficult thing about it is making sure it's comprehensive but quick enough so that a crowd of humans never forms.
Anecdotally, we joined the million humans at Brandenburg Tor last New Year's Eve - with some trepidation, given the threat environment and magnetic appeal of a million bodies waiting to be blown up- and found the police had (among many things) implemented just that, a very quick remote checkpoint. Easier than at an airport, since people didn't come with trollies of luggage.
Anecdotally, we joined the million humans at Brandenburg Tor last New Year's Eve - with some trepidation, given the threat environment and magnetic appeal of a million bodies waiting to be blown up- and found the police had (among many things) implemented just that, a very quick remote checkpoint. Easier than at an airport, since people didn't come with trollies of luggage.
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@poorjohn Isn't that pretty much the Israeli SOP? i seem to recall an interview with an Israeli expert (consultant?) who expressed a degree of horror at the "standard" security at most airports.
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ILS27LEFT Put security outside the terminal and you will have a bunch of jihadis unloading rounds of ammo from AK-47's on the waiting crowds outside. They don't have to use bombs to kill a boat load of people, as they proved in Paris. As someone else pointed out, you can put security further and further back, the problem will still remain.
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i seem to recall an interview with an Israeli expert (consultant?) who expressed a degree of horror at the "standard" security at most airports.
Ain't gonna happen.
Of course, even if you did successfully 'harden' all the airports, the attacks would simply move to other 'soft' targets - other places where crowds tend to form - subway/train stations, buses, movie theaters, restaurants, etc.
Last edited by tdracer; 22nd Mar 2016 at 23:50.
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Of course, even if you did successfully 'harden' all the airports, the attacks would simply move to other 'soft' targets - other places where crowds tend to form - subway/train stations, buses, movie theaters, restaurants, etc.
I have always been bemused when I saw armed police at airports/railway stations (such as Brussels by the way). What protection does that offer the public against a bomb in a suitcase or backpack?! The problem needs to be dealt with at source, which is what they try to do, but it's a steep uphill battle which will also never be 100% successful. In some parts of the world suicide bombings/attacks are almost a daily occurrence, so all in all I think we have got off pretty lightly over here.....so far!
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Have you seen the queues at the entrance in India?
This could be as deadly as inside the terminal, if not more.
The real solution is intel. Stop the terrorists before they execute their plan.
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tdracer
"Of course, even if you did successfully 'harden' all the airports, the attacks would simply move to other 'soft' targets - other places where crowds tend to form - subway/train stations, buses, movie theaters, restaurants, etc."
I agree 100%, but, at least if they did that I could come to work a bit safer & then make a choice for the rest of my life as regards "mingling with the crowds" etc. . . . selfish I know, but. . . . . .
"Of course, even if you did successfully 'harden' all the airports, the attacks would simply move to other 'soft' targets - other places where crowds tend to form - subway/train stations, buses, movie theaters, restaurants, etc."
I agree 100%, but, at least if they did that I could come to work a bit safer & then make a choice for the rest of my life as regards "mingling with the crowds" etc. . . . selfish I know, but. . . . . .
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Security at Narita airport in Japan starts outside the airport. If you come in by road (cars and buses), you have to go through the equivalent of a customs checkpoint. Similarly to get out of the airport train station.
There are many airports in the U.S. (e.g. Denver) that charge a fee for entering (all by motor vehicle). It wouldn't be impossible to have an inspection at these toll gates -- which are located about a mile or two from the terminal.
There are many airports in the U.S. (e.g. Denver) that charge a fee for entering (all by motor vehicle). It wouldn't be impossible to have an inspection at these toll gates -- which are located about a mile or two from the terminal.
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For all the complaints about security and security theater, it has succeeded in preventing another 9-11 style attack. We can never totally secure travel, but preventing hijacking is more important than preventing attacks on civilians waiting in line. Likewise, preventing sabotage that leads to fatal accidents is more important.
As to how to reduce the casualties at checkpoints... the discussion will no doubt proceed and some progress will no doubt be made.
As to how to reduce the casualties at checkpoints... the discussion will no doubt proceed and some progress will no doubt be made.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Can you even begin to imagine the number of people you'd have to hire to implement Israeli-style security at Western airports without crippling the aviation industry?
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I should think there are nowhere near enough trained sniffer dogs to adequately fulfill what may now be a change in policy regarding land-side terminal surveillance. Was told once a dog (and their handler) could earn £1000 a day as a sniffer - anyone able to verify that? Might be a use for useless mutt after all.
It seems to me that a lot of problems could be solved by separating travelers from their luggage. The fees for checked luggage resulting in more carry-on bags (and more people lugging their bags through the airport) would seem to be counter productive from a safety perspective. It would seem to me that a better solution would be to do away with carry-on and have the bags checked as soon as the person arrives at the airport. And if you really want to be safe, put all the people on one plane, and the bags on another. Few terrorists are going to be bothered blowing up a plane full of baggage.
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Take the gloves off and start being non-PC. The solution, or mitigation at least is as complicated as the problem itself, but we could start by using old fashioned PCs to sniff out the wierd ones, the ones who don't look right and those behaving strangely. But keep them fresh. Week after week at an airport will dull their senses. Make it easier for the general public to dob in their neighbours; like when matey boy next door, who doesn't work, shaves his beard off or takes delivery of very large parcels. Use profiling to hunt out the ner-do-wells and track down the miserable murderers through their laptops and their electronic trails. Yes, you'll get it wrong a few times, but that's just tough. And while we are here, we have to change our laws so those who get turned over have little or no comeback. And if you don't like it, you can always move somewhere else. And whenever we do catch the scum, lock them up for a long time, deporting those without British citizenship on release. But for Christ's sake, don't let airport security personnel get involved; I want proper protection.
Let's not insult those families who have lost loved ones by rolling over and doing little else
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Let's not insult those families who have lost loved ones by rolling over and doing little else
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