BBC report fire on Easyjet B737 - all ok
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Bigears,
Absolutely true, but still the easiest way in is straight through the door with a hard push. But to aggravate the situation on board more your suggestion might pass the terrorist quiztest.
Absolutely true, but still the easiest way in is straight through the door with a hard push. But to aggravate the situation on board more your suggestion might pass the terrorist quiztest.
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A daft question maybe (but I am a trainee ATCO) -
Is CO2 in this form (dry ice) part of the aircrafts systems?
Or was it cargo?
If it's cargo, would it be classed as a 'Dangerous Substance' and would the crew be aware they were carrying it?
One of my reasons for asking is that "Dangerous Substances" is one of the bit of info we have to pass to the Fire Service is we declare a Full Emergency (as we would have done if this aircraft had come to us)
egffztzx
Is CO2 in this form (dry ice) part of the aircrafts systems?
Or was it cargo?
If it's cargo, would it be classed as a 'Dangerous Substance' and would the crew be aware they were carrying it?
One of my reasons for asking is that "Dangerous Substances" is one of the bit of info we have to pass to the Fire Service is we declare a Full Emergency (as we would have done if this aircraft had come to us)
egffztzx
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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The flight was enroute from Glasgow to Amserdam. I guess at the point where smoke was suspected the crew would have been involved in flying the aircraft through a rather busy stage of the flight.
VFE.
VFE.
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The flight deck did exactly what they should have done-put the thing on the ground as rapidly as possible.
If it then turns out that they were overcautious-no problem.
We can then all discuss smoke/dry ice/what I would have done/what happened before etc etc 'til the cows come home-without the loss of one passenger!
Well done mates (and not forgetting the help they must have had from the air trafficers).
If it then turns out that they were overcautious-no problem.
We can then all discuss smoke/dry ice/what I would have done/what happened before etc etc 'til the cows come home-without the loss of one passenger!
Well done mates (and not forgetting the help they must have had from the air trafficers).
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egffztzx:
Dry ice usually is packaged in a tough paper bag and used to keep the frozen crew HOT meals cool in transit with the caterer on the ground. This bag is then nearly always put into the a/c rubbish bins where it just evaporates away to nothing more than a few drips in a paper bag. What happened for the CC on this jet was I am afraid a big gotcha for the No2 & 3 but should not have phased the Senior Cabin Crew Member as EZY call their pursers.
If you were to look closely into Dangerous Goods or Hazardous materials within the cabin then to be honest you could have a field day (air fresheners, cleaning sprays, torch batteries). If this type of equipment is to be documented anywhere then to be honest each aircraft should have a risk assessment detailing any materials harmfull to crew or pax. This legislation is enforced in the offices of the airlines themselves but not to my recall the aircraft. H&S can have a snowball effect once you start probing, but invariably it is for the good of all.
Dry ice usually is packaged in a tough paper bag and used to keep the frozen crew HOT meals cool in transit with the caterer on the ground. This bag is then nearly always put into the a/c rubbish bins where it just evaporates away to nothing more than a few drips in a paper bag. What happened for the CC on this jet was I am afraid a big gotcha for the No2 & 3 but should not have phased the Senior Cabin Crew Member as EZY call their pursers.
If you were to look closely into Dangerous Goods or Hazardous materials within the cabin then to be honest you could have a field day (air fresheners, cleaning sprays, torch batteries). If this type of equipment is to be documented anywhere then to be honest each aircraft should have a risk assessment detailing any materials harmfull to crew or pax. This legislation is enforced in the offices of the airlines themselves but not to my recall the aircraft. H&S can have a snowball effect once you start probing, but invariably it is for the good of all.
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AeroBoero
I'm not going to hijack this thread into a smoking debate, but from the link you gave:
IOW source unknown.
I'm not going to hijack this thread into a smoking debate, but from the link you gave:
The fire may have been started by an electrical fault or by the carelessness of a passenger.
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In reply to Konkordski's Earlier post,
Quote :- " Having read some of the comments, speculation and drama-laden statements which followed the Original post, I'm convinced that we don't actually need any "media luvvies" to "ham it up"
I find his attack on myself and others offensive and and totally uncalled for if he'd read my reply correctly he'll see I said "IF".
I am not anti-Smoking but if the Aircraft is a non-Smoking Flight people who break the Law, And it is the Law should be prosecuted to the full extent of the Law for Endangering the Aircraft and the lives of the Crew and Passengers.
Quote :- " Having read some of the comments, speculation and drama-laden statements which followed the Original post, I'm convinced that we don't actually need any "media luvvies" to "ham it up"
I find his attack on myself and others offensive and and totally uncalled for if he'd read my reply correctly he'll see I said "IF".
I am not anti-Smoking but if the Aircraft is a non-Smoking Flight people who break the Law, And it is the Law should be prosecuted to the full extent of the Law for Endangering the Aircraft and the lives of the Crew and Passengers.
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Well done to the crew. You see smoke....you get it down. You can always ask questions later. And there is no way the F/O should have left the flight deck as some have suggested. He's paid to fly the plane!
Dry ice is permitted on board aircraft in restricted quantities, even in passengers handbaggage, as long as it is in a 'breathable' container, etc. (Used to chill samples, etc.) This is a standard exception to the Dangerous Goods Regulations, applied at most/all airlines.
Dry ice is permitted on board aircraft in restricted quantities, even in passengers handbaggage, as long as it is in a 'breathable' container, etc. (Used to chill samples, etc.) This is a standard exception to the Dangerous Goods Regulations, applied at most/all airlines.
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Precisely JAFCon.
And IF your're a complete w**ker, then I hope you get strung up by the balls.
It's so easy to jump on smokers these days isn't it? Wildfire starts: media say it was a carelessly discared cigarette. Hotel fire: "initial reports suggest" that someone was smoing in bed. "Fire" on aeroplane: must have been someone smoking in the lav.
When it turns out that it wasn't, no public apology. No retraction of the accusation; but the stigma remains and people's perception of smokers as a group of despicable subhumans is reinforced.
And IF your're a complete w**ker, then I hope you get strung up by the balls.
It's so easy to jump on smokers these days isn't it? Wildfire starts: media say it was a carelessly discared cigarette. Hotel fire: "initial reports suggest" that someone was smoing in bed. "Fire" on aeroplane: must have been someone smoking in the lav.
When it turns out that it wasn't, no public apology. No retraction of the accusation; but the stigma remains and people's perception of smokers as a group of despicable subhumans is reinforced.
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Emergency diversion for dry ice is highly embarassing for this crew and airline.Those who advocate getting down on terra firma without first investigating what you're up against are incorrect.Quite a few airlines will discipline a Captain for making an unnecessary diversion.Know the condition of your ship and act accordingly.Those who say leave it to the cabin crew...well,perhaps.Depends on the crew you've got back there.Some are good..some not so good.One thing for sure though..its your job on the line not theirs.Pilots DONT just "fly the plane"...911 has changed a few things but not to that extent.You have to be involved in all aspects of the flight,including what goes on behind you in the cabin.If all we had to do was "fly the plane",the job could be done by a monkey.No,I'm afraid there's more to it than that.
Rananim. On what grounds could an airline management get away with disciplining the flightcrew in these circumstances?
I can't see how you could get anything to stick at a tribunal out of this.
Smoke in the cabin is one of the most chilling prospects I think we all agree. If there's doubt, there's no doubt - put it on the ground. Would be my view.
WWW
I can't see how you could get anything to stick at a tribunal out of this.
Smoke in the cabin is one of the most chilling prospects I think we all agree. If there's doubt, there's no doubt - put it on the ground. Would be my view.
WWW
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As Cabin Crew, our company instructs (SEP manual & CRM courses) that when smoke/fumes present the f/deck door should never be opened!! All comms with Flight Crew by interphone, and an elaborate set of procedures to ensure fire fighting and constant comms with Flight Crew.
Given this, it would be a surprise to see one of the Flight Crew come out to check up, since this would invalidate the previous procedure - what is the point of training FA's to firefight & communicate if you then don't trust us to do either?
Given this, it would be a surprise to see one of the Flight Crew come out to check up, since this would invalidate the previous procedure - what is the point of training FA's to firefight & communicate if you then don't trust us to do either?
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Rananim and Flat Spin
Totally out of order!! What utter nonsense you guys are spouting. I know the Captain involved and he is VERY experienced on the B737, and a total professional!!!!!
What the hell kind of airline do you guys work for that would:
a: Advocte a flight crew member to go and investigate a potential cabin fire.
b: Repremand the crew for making a precautionary landing!
Let me put this point to you. What if the F/O HAD gone to look and said "Yeah it's just dry ice, no problem." Then 15 mins later it was found that it WAS a genuine fire. You would all be on here saying "Oh yeah they should have diverted immediately. How could they have waited so long!" Letting someone, flight OR cabin crew make an interpritation of a "fire" is leading you down the road of misidentification. It is well known, when in doubt, get it on the ground.
I am quite frankly gobsmacked at some of the comments on this thread. Rananim I trust the cabin crew I work with as well trained individuals, whom the company trust to look after the safety of the passengers and crew we carry. If one of them tells me they have a fire, then that is good enough for me. Sure attempt to tackle the fire IF they can, but do not go and look for yourself, they are more trained than you in dealing with fires!
Please let us know what airline you fly with so that I can avoid travelling with you!!!!
Eff Oh
Totally out of order!! What utter nonsense you guys are spouting. I know the Captain involved and he is VERY experienced on the B737, and a total professional!!!!!
What the hell kind of airline do you guys work for that would:
a: Advocte a flight crew member to go and investigate a potential cabin fire.
b: Repremand the crew for making a precautionary landing!
Let me put this point to you. What if the F/O HAD gone to look and said "Yeah it's just dry ice, no problem." Then 15 mins later it was found that it WAS a genuine fire. You would all be on here saying "Oh yeah they should have diverted immediately. How could they have waited so long!" Letting someone, flight OR cabin crew make an interpritation of a "fire" is leading you down the road of misidentification. It is well known, when in doubt, get it on the ground.
I am quite frankly gobsmacked at some of the comments on this thread. Rananim I trust the cabin crew I work with as well trained individuals, whom the company trust to look after the safety of the passengers and crew we carry. If one of them tells me they have a fire, then that is good enough for me. Sure attempt to tackle the fire IF they can, but do not go and look for yourself, they are more trained than you in dealing with fires!
Please let us know what airline you fly with so that I can avoid travelling with you!!!!
Eff Oh
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WWW,
When I pointed out that some airlines would discipline a Captain for making an unnecessary diversion,I didnt imply that I necessarily agreed with this policy.Its a tough job..if you divert you have to justify it..and if you elect not to,you have to justify that too.Naturally,if you work for an airline that will support whatever decision you make,I say "Hang on to that job" and wish you the best of luck.Perhaps when you tire of flying holidaymakers to Spain,you will try the expat life,and then you'll see.Not all carriers(there are many good ones) obviously.But we're not talking third world either.
Eff Oh,
Ditto.I worked 17 years for a US major,then 18 as an expat.Now retired.
When I pointed out that some airlines would discipline a Captain for making an unnecessary diversion,I didnt imply that I necessarily agreed with this policy.Its a tough job..if you divert you have to justify it..and if you elect not to,you have to justify that too.Naturally,if you work for an airline that will support whatever decision you make,I say "Hang on to that job" and wish you the best of luck.Perhaps when you tire of flying holidaymakers to Spain,you will try the expat life,and then you'll see.Not all carriers(there are many good ones) obviously.But we're not talking third world either.
Eff Oh,
Ditto.I worked 17 years for a US major,then 18 as an expat.Now retired.
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Easyjet seem happy with the crew!
Easyjet seem (rightly in my opinion) to think that the crew did the right thing judging by this press release that appeared on their website.
easyJet honours cabin crew for swift action in 'dry ice incident'
easyJet has put forward cabin crew Yvonne Johnstone and John Hudson for a Top Staff award in recognition of their swift action in the 'dry ice incident' on easyJet flight 868 from Glasgow to Amsterdam on Tuesday morning.
Thirty minutes into the flight, the cabin crew members saw what was believed to be smoke coming from a metal waste container in the rear galley area and discharged a fire extinguisher into it.
They informed the captain, who followed the standard operating procedures and diverted the plane to
Newcastle airport. The cabin crew kept the passengers informed at all times, reassured them and kept them calm.
Once landed, the Newcastle Airport Fire Services boarded the aircraft with all the passengers still in place and declared that there were no "hot spots" in the rear galley area. An investigation has found dry ice bags (which are used to keep sandwiches cold) inside the metal waste-bin container to be the cause of the 'smoke'.
Ray Webster, easyJet CEO, has nothing but praise for the whole easyJet crew: "We encourage our crews to take absolutely no risks - this is the cornerstone of safety. The cabin crew showed the highest levels of leadership and commitment in putting passengers' safety first and followed their training to the letter. They dealt swiftly with the incident and made sure that passengers were kept calm. I have nothing but praise for the way they handled the situation. At easyJet safety comes before anything else - no matter what the cost - and Tuesday's events are a great example of this."
The cabin crew will attend an easyJet awards ceremony to collect their award.
easyJet honours cabin crew for swift action in 'dry ice incident'
easyJet has put forward cabin crew Yvonne Johnstone and John Hudson for a Top Staff award in recognition of their swift action in the 'dry ice incident' on easyJet flight 868 from Glasgow to Amsterdam on Tuesday morning.
Thirty minutes into the flight, the cabin crew members saw what was believed to be smoke coming from a metal waste container in the rear galley area and discharged a fire extinguisher into it.
They informed the captain, who followed the standard operating procedures and diverted the plane to
Newcastle airport. The cabin crew kept the passengers informed at all times, reassured them and kept them calm.
Once landed, the Newcastle Airport Fire Services boarded the aircraft with all the passengers still in place and declared that there were no "hot spots" in the rear galley area. An investigation has found dry ice bags (which are used to keep sandwiches cold) inside the metal waste-bin container to be the cause of the 'smoke'.
Ray Webster, easyJet CEO, has nothing but praise for the whole easyJet crew: "We encourage our crews to take absolutely no risks - this is the cornerstone of safety. The cabin crew showed the highest levels of leadership and commitment in putting passengers' safety first and followed their training to the letter. They dealt swiftly with the incident and made sure that passengers were kept calm. I have nothing but praise for the way they handled the situation. At easyJet safety comes before anything else - no matter what the cost - and Tuesday's events are a great example of this."
The cabin crew will attend an easyJet awards ceremony to collect their award.
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Raninim. A*se. Enjoy your retirement. Thank god times have moved on since your type. Well done the crew!
Edited to add the word A*se
Edited to add the word A*se
Last edited by BTB; 27th Jun 2002 at 16:24.