Sometimes I wonder what had happened to my profession
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that you leave this democracy behind at the doors of an aircraft.
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Especially if the PiC draws on experience, guidelines, home office info, intel and common sense. And not prejudice or ignorance.
16024, Just saw another report where a couple of women were chucked off for giving cabin crew a funny look.
If only I could have done that; half of my trainers would have gone
If only I could have done that; half of my trainers would have gone
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When one looks more closely at report it is not quite as crazy as one might think. What the other passenger knew was that a group called ISI to which his fellow passenger belonged was organising a prayer group at around the time of take off. Not totally impossible to understand his concern
Back in BOAC 747 days we used to get Jews and Muslims asking to say their prayers at sunrise across the Atlantic. They were guided to the crew rest seats by door 5R and they dressed appropriately for the 'occasion'. Does that still happen?
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Pointed out to my sim trainees the other day that it is called ISIS.....told them that, because of this, it needed renaming. I mooted Digital Authority Electronic Speed and Heading.......no, wait.....
I'm surprised that so many think this is an odd reaction.
A very foreign looking person is trying to raise a "conference prayer" (!!!) call on an app immediately before a flight and the app is seen to be called ISI****
I think that behaviour and the ISI caption is sufficiently weird to warrant immediate investigation.
The Capt's refusal to allow him to reboard seems on the face of it a bit OTT but if an number of other pax had abandoned the flight due to their concerns, as seems to have been the case, he would have legitimate worries that the reappearance of this person might precipitate a mass exodus. I'm not saying he was right, but I think there's a rationale there that is not completely unreasonable. It certainly doesn't look racist, bigoted or some of the other nasty names appended above.
Where would he be had he allowed the fella back on and everyone else had gotten off? Up a very similar creek I suspect. One of those Captaincy calls we all hope not to have to make too often. I feel for him.
A lesson that Mr Conference Prayer might learn is don't do bizarre religious things on or near aircraft. I think most Europeans would regard public prayer in that environment as odd but doing it with others on a conference call is way beyond what most would expect and possibly beyond what they'll tolerate. We are, after all, constantly being told to be alert for oddball behaviour and this is guaranteed to set off warning bells.
Shame the press have to make someone a scapegoat just to sell their lousy rag.
A very foreign looking person is trying to raise a "conference prayer" (!!!) call on an app immediately before a flight and the app is seen to be called ISI****
I think that behaviour and the ISI caption is sufficiently weird to warrant immediate investigation.
The Capt's refusal to allow him to reboard seems on the face of it a bit OTT but if an number of other pax had abandoned the flight due to their concerns, as seems to have been the case, he would have legitimate worries that the reappearance of this person might precipitate a mass exodus. I'm not saying he was right, but I think there's a rationale there that is not completely unreasonable. It certainly doesn't look racist, bigoted or some of the other nasty names appended above.
Where would he be had he allowed the fella back on and everyone else had gotten off? Up a very similar creek I suspect. One of those Captaincy calls we all hope not to have to make too often. I feel for him.
A lesson that Mr Conference Prayer might learn is don't do bizarre religious things on or near aircraft. I think most Europeans would regard public prayer in that environment as odd but doing it with others on a conference call is way beyond what most would expect and possibly beyond what they'll tolerate. We are, after all, constantly being told to be alert for oddball behaviour and this is guaranteed to set off warning bells.
Shame the press have to make someone a scapegoat just to sell their lousy rag.
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I agree with the Captain.
Apparently this guy was trying to do a 'Conference call prayer' on his phone sitting on Commercial Jet Transport, next to other Passengers.
If your religion demands you have to pray at a certain time. Don't Air travel during that time.
Go do your praying at home or your church, mosque, whatever.
He was removed for actions not considered normal for the time and place where he was and quite rightly too.
Bet you he doesn't do it again on Easyjet!
The Captain has sole responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. He exercise his Command authority.
Hold your head up high Captain.
Apparently this guy was trying to do a 'Conference call prayer' on his phone sitting on Commercial Jet Transport, next to other Passengers.
If your religion demands you have to pray at a certain time. Don't Air travel during that time.
Go do your praying at home or your church, mosque, whatever.
He was removed for actions not considered normal for the time and place where he was and quite rightly too.
Bet you he doesn't do it again on Easyjet!
The Captain has sole responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. He exercise his Command authority.
Hold your head up high Captain.
He was removed for actions not considered normal for the time and place where he was and quite rightly too.
If people want to get together, in ways now possible thanks to technology, and talk to their imaginary friend that's their business.
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If you're religion (which is a lifestyle choice, no different to being a vegetarian) and said religion dictates certain things, then you need to do an assessment as to wether or not a product meets your demand a needs. If it doesn't, then it's time to assess what alternatives there are.
If you can't sit next to a female, buy an extra seat next to you. If you can be served by a woman on her period, buy something in Boots at the terminal. You know I worked in a shop for years and never heard of a colleague being asked if she's 'on'. But get someone into the airline environment and they demand to know the intimate details of someone.
If you need to partake in prayers inflight, research the type of jet and its facilities. Don't demand all crew vacate a busy galley so you can engage in prayer to a god that you choose to follow.
And, if you can't get on a plane without doing a group chat or prayer, might one suggest the ferry, Eurolines, Megabus, FLIXBUS, Ouibus or Eurostar?
If you can't sit next to a female, buy an extra seat next to you. If you can be served by a woman on her period, buy something in Boots at the terminal. You know I worked in a shop for years and never heard of a colleague being asked if she's 'on'. But get someone into the airline environment and they demand to know the intimate details of someone.
If you need to partake in prayers inflight, research the type of jet and its facilities. Don't demand all crew vacate a busy galley so you can engage in prayer to a god that you choose to follow.
And, if you can't get on a plane without doing a group chat or prayer, might one suggest the ferry, Eurolines, Megabus, FLIXBUS, Ouibus or Eurostar?
Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 19th Mar 2016 at 11:18.
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I think it has much to do with the country where all that non-sense did happen ....
in other european countries, police and staff would take on themselves that it's completely ridiculous - when in this country, obedience to law will bring people to the lowest forms of human conscience and attitude.
I'm writing by experience of living there, flying there, having been through security searches in all the airports there ....
in other european countries, police and staff would take on themselves that it's completely ridiculous - when in this country, obedience to law will bring people to the lowest forms of human conscience and attitude.
I'm writing by experience of living there, flying there, having been through security searches in all the airports there ....
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And here we go again...
And here we go again, for better or worse, this is going to keep happening as people get twitchy. Granted there are two sides to all these.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3511288/EasyJet-flight-Vienna-London-halted-ISIS-scare.html
Two most interesting things about the last incident & I'm sure this one too:
People seem most offended by party A snooping at party B's phone, this is not illegal & happens every day on the tube. On the scale of things we all need to learn...this is not one.
People are then outraged by the fact that 'pilot would not let suspect back on' - no wonder, flight would have left well before the questioning had finished. There is no leeway for 'disruption' and of course you'll be getting the next one...if allowed on your way.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3511288/EasyJet-flight-Vienna-London-halted-ISIS-scare.html
Two most interesting things about the last incident & I'm sure this one too:
People seem most offended by party A snooping at party B's phone, this is not illegal & happens every day on the tube. On the scale of things we all need to learn...this is not one.
People are then outraged by the fact that 'pilot would not let suspect back on' - no wonder, flight would have left well before the questioning had finished. There is no leeway for 'disruption' and of course you'll be getting the next one...if allowed on your way.
