Atlas/AACS
Guest
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As far as pilot pay goes, Atlas may have to settle for 10.5% after tax profit instead of 12% (in an industry where 7% is considered a great year). Although I quit Atlas some time ago, I loved the aircraft, the flying, and the crews I flew with. Unfortunately, management demonstrated to me, many times, their incompetence and non-concern for employees. Hence, I now work for a excellent company with industry standard pay/benefits and a management that cares. And it would appear that an attrition rate of 20% per year backs my opinion up with hard data.
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It is unfortunate that every new company must go through these growing pains. Only in rare cases does management have enough vision to see what is best long term. I know that we will only get what we can negotiate. We must negotiate from a position of strenght, 100% STRIKE VOTE!
Most of our management team (Rick Shuyler) has been in this industry for a long time. I would think they could look beyond short term gain and work toward building a stable and profitable company.
I know the Guv will disagree. Right now he is thinking:
Those who have something should have nothing, and those who have nothing should have less.
Sorry Guv, I couldn't help myself. This banter has become too much fun.
[This message has been edited by Silver Thunder (edited 15 March 2001).]
Most of our management team (Rick Shuyler) has been in this industry for a long time. I would think they could look beyond short term gain and work toward building a stable and profitable company.
I know the Guv will disagree. Right now he is thinking:
Those who have something should have nothing, and those who have nothing should have less.
Sorry Guv, I couldn't help myself. This banter has become too much fun.
[This message has been edited by Silver Thunder (edited 15 March 2001).]
Guest
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You are incorrect in regards to Polar. Although we mostly fly our own freight instead of being an active competitor to Atlas, we have recently leased long term, one of our -400's to a luxumborg based company. (Not Cargolux or Pathfinder)Also we have a -200 flying for Lufthansa off and on.
Other then a short term UPS contract none of our -100's are on ACMI contracts.
And in regard to Preswick we are getting a good deal there because we were willing to spend time and alot of money setting up the Maintenance base there which is employeeing a large number of local citizens.
Other then a short term UPS contract none of our -100's are on ACMI contracts.
And in regard to Preswick we are getting a good deal there because we were willing to spend time and alot of money setting up the Maintenance base there which is employeeing a large number of local citizens.
Guest
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Well, to make it clear...
POLAR's 744 is flying for STAF / SwissGlobalCargo, and that is pure ACMI. Why that is, you have to ask POLAR. I thought they bought their new babies for the Pacific, but apparently that game plan ha changed by now...
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There's nothing like a three-holer...
POLAR's 744 is flying for STAF / SwissGlobalCargo, and that is pure ACMI. Why that is, you have to ask POLAR. I thought they bought their new babies for the Pacific, but apparently that game plan ha changed by now...
------------------
There's nothing like a three-holer...
Guest
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Global Supply Systems.
It is a third company that is going to be, or already has been, set up by Atlas to flim flam the U.K. DETR into allowing Atlas an AOC. Mainline pilots are not real sure of it's ownership and or status as we have been told nothing official by Atlas Management. Apparently the AACS manager knows what it is so any real info would have to come from an AACS guy. Sounds like G.S.S. is going to be to AACS what AACS was/is to Atlas. I can't hardly wait to see the AACS pilots reaction.
No the mainliners that went to the dark side (AACS) will not be welcomed back with open arms, if at all, unless it is at the bottom of the seniority list.
[This message has been edited by Beaver Driver (edited 16 March 2001).]
It is a third company that is going to be, or already has been, set up by Atlas to flim flam the U.K. DETR into allowing Atlas an AOC. Mainline pilots are not real sure of it's ownership and or status as we have been told nothing official by Atlas Management. Apparently the AACS manager knows what it is so any real info would have to come from an AACS guy. Sounds like G.S.S. is going to be to AACS what AACS was/is to Atlas. I can't hardly wait to see the AACS pilots reaction.
No the mainliners that went to the dark side (AACS) will not be welcomed back with open arms, if at all, unless it is at the bottom of the seniority list.
[This message has been edited by Beaver Driver (edited 16 March 2001).]
Guest
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That would be my expectation if I were going over there. As I consider it a separate company, but that's just me. Atlas managers gave the AACS guys Atlas ID cards so they could get the FAA to buy off on letting mainline instructors do their training. And, since they have Atlas ID cards, they would have to be among the first to go in a furlough situation, as the courts would force Atlas to furlough in reverse date of hire order. Ya gotta hate that!
Guest
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I don't get it. What is Atlas' plan? With the attrition at mainline, they can't just furlough AACS without parking airplanes. Are they just playing a shell game and going to void the AACS pilot contracts and try and roll them over to an even worse deal at GSS? This thing smells even worse than most of Atlas' deals. Hope ALPA is keeping a close watch on this one. I sounds to me like Atlas is letting lawyers run the company. That's the first step in starting a frenzy of self-destruction.
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Move_It
You are absolutely correct, an unenviable situation has deveoped for some good folks who trusted and hoped for the best. However, even a cursory review of the threads regarding AACS in the last year makes it screamingly clear that they were warned. The general response seemed to be a thumbed nose at best. Actually some of those warnings and predictions seem uncanily accurate in light of recent events.
Guv,
I believe you either underestimate the power of the Courts or you are not aware of the true dynamics of this situation. As a big brush summary: If the Courts rule against Atlas/AACS in the current lawsuit AACS WILL go away, there WILL eventually be a contract signed between Atlas and it's crewforce, and the provisions (scope, etc.) of that contract WILL make it impossible for Atlas to ever try this stunt again. Of course if Atlas is sold somewhere in that process who knows what will happen.
Global industry or not, Atlas is chartered, licensed and owned in the US. That is what the AACS lawsuit is really all about. Atlas tried to evade US labor law (among others) by moving assets and operations overseas and replacing the US, unionized crewforce with a non-US, non-unionized crewforce. That dog ain't gonna hunt. Unlike the situation apparently extant in some other nations, US labor laws are written to protect US workers.
As to the stock holders, I'm sure they would prefer that personnel work for free, maintenance not be required, and taxes not be owed but that's not going to happen either. Even stock holders have to sip from the reality font on occasion. This is one of those occasions.
[This message has been edited by StbdD (edited 17 March 2001).]
You are absolutely correct, an unenviable situation has deveoped for some good folks who trusted and hoped for the best. However, even a cursory review of the threads regarding AACS in the last year makes it screamingly clear that they were warned. The general response seemed to be a thumbed nose at best. Actually some of those warnings and predictions seem uncanily accurate in light of recent events.
Guv,
I believe you either underestimate the power of the Courts or you are not aware of the true dynamics of this situation. As a big brush summary: If the Courts rule against Atlas/AACS in the current lawsuit AACS WILL go away, there WILL eventually be a contract signed between Atlas and it's crewforce, and the provisions (scope, etc.) of that contract WILL make it impossible for Atlas to ever try this stunt again. Of course if Atlas is sold somewhere in that process who knows what will happen.
Global industry or not, Atlas is chartered, licensed and owned in the US. That is what the AACS lawsuit is really all about. Atlas tried to evade US labor law (among others) by moving assets and operations overseas and replacing the US, unionized crewforce with a non-US, non-unionized crewforce. That dog ain't gonna hunt. Unlike the situation apparently extant in some other nations, US labor laws are written to protect US workers.
As to the stock holders, I'm sure they would prefer that personnel work for free, maintenance not be required, and taxes not be owed but that's not going to happen either. Even stock holders have to sip from the reality font on occasion. This is one of those occasions.
[This message has been edited by StbdD (edited 17 March 2001).]
