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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:23
  #1121 (permalink)  
 
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source rt.com

11:27 GMT
The cockpit voice recorder of Flight 9268 suffered minor damage and will be decoded very soon, Aleksandr Neradko, head of the Russian aviation authority, said.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:23
  #1122 (permalink)  
 
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wdowell

"The British seem to be acting more out of a fear that the airport security is apparently weak at the airport in question, than the actual evidence of this particular incident."

If, as it seems, the US has sensitive military satellite intelligence they are more likely to share it with the Brits than the French, Egyptians etc.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:24
  #1123 (permalink)  
 
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Tail strike on takeoff at Sharm?

A couple of posters have mentioned tail strike on takeoff.

DingerX #816
A321 and tailstrikes. A321s have the longest bodies of the A320 family, and tailstrike with some frequency. When they do, they don't strike back at the RPB, but further forward. For example, someone scraped this a321 pretty bad, with the center of damage just below the Bulk Cargo Door. This means that, even if the 2001 repair were done perfectly, some other tailstrike might have doomed this aircraft. We've seen here the reports of pilots "not hearing" a tailstrike.

Cosmo Beauregard #1095
What if this aircraft over rotated on takeoff? If you take a straight edge and capture the bottom of the main wheels and then rotate the edge along the aft fuselage, I believe we have just located the lower point of the split.

Could a tailstrike on takeoff at Sharm validly be considered as a possible initiating incident in this case? Heavy load and slower lift from a hot runway - not like St. Petersburg.

Last edited by Indarra; 5th Nov 2015 at 15:15. Reason: addition
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:24
  #1124 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Simplythebeast
Having said that, I am a little surprised that the CVR is allegedly badly damaged and cant be interpreted yet
Kulverstukas (or anyone else), can you remind us of the source of the earlier report that the CVR had been listened to and ended abruptly with non-standard sounds? Was it Egyptian or Russian?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:27
  #1125 (permalink)  
 
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So SSH is crawling with British airport security eggspurts, who have come to the rapid conclusion that the local security precautions/procedures are dangerously inadequate?

What were the conclusions of the most recent security AUDITS performed by the EU AAs, airlines and everyone else who has a security brief?

There must be some red faces in the audit empire on discovering the stable door was unlatched all along.

My last memories of airline ops were of various departments tearing their collective hair out over audit findings of such trivia as to be comical, except for the resulting aggro.

So where do these characters stand now in the big picture?

Go on, Mods, censor this like you deleted my last on the subject of catering security!!
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:29
  #1126 (permalink)  
 
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Beast

"Could it be that it HAS been listened to and that release of the content is being delayed for whatever reason?"

Who do you expect them to release it to? The Daily Mail?
This is part of an accident investigation not for prime time soundbites.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:31
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source of the earlier report that the CVR had been listened to
I can be wrong however but seems it can be traced to another "Egyptian source"
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:35
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Would a tail strike on TO be potentially heard and remarked upon on CVR?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:37
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BARKINGMAD
I'm sure there will be some red faces but in my old airline, if we weren't satisfied with the airport's own security standards, we put in an extra layer manned by our own people.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:38
  #1130 (permalink)  
 
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What`s going on at Sharm. Here is the latest live dept board from airport web site:

SSH ARRIVALS Date: Thu 05-Nov-2015 Time Period: 12:00 AM - 3:00 AM 3:00 AM - 6:00 AM 6:00 AM - 9:00 AM 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM 12:00 PM - 3:00 PM 3:00 PM - 6:00 PM 6:00 PM - 9:00 PM 9:00 PM - 12:00 AM Departures Arrivals Airport: (SSH) Sharm El Sheikh Airport Sharm el Sheikh, EG Flight Carrier Origin Arrival Status SV 325 Saudia (JED) Jeddah 3:35 PM Landed ZB 684 Monarch Airlines (MAN) Manchester 3:50 PM Scheduled SV 327 Saudia (RUH) Riyadh 4:15 PM Landed BA 2560 British Airways (LGW) London 4:20 PM Scheduled U2 8851 easyJet (LGW) London 4:25 PM Scheduled TOM 396 Thomson (LGW) London 4:25 PM Scheduled U2 2661 easyJet (MXP) Milan 4:25 PM Cancelled TCX 1626 Thomas Cook Airlines (LGW) London 4:30 PM Scheduled ZB 248 Monarch Airlines (LGW) London 4:45 PM Scheduled U2 3031 easyJet (STN) London 4:55 PM Cancelled MS 308 EgyptAir (HRG) Hurghada 5:00 PM Scheduled TOM 716 Thomson (BRS) Bristol 5:05 PM Cancelled TOM 620 Thomson (MAN) Manchester 5:20 PM Cancelled ZB 474 Monarch Airlines (BHX) Birmingham 5:25 PM Scheduled TCX 2624 Thomas Cook Airlines (MAN) Manchester 5:35 PM Scheduled
Sharm El Sheikh Airport Live Flight Information: Arrivals and Departures

A few cancellation but not all. For BA 2561 5:10 and for TOM 733 3:50 scheduled depts are shown.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:40
  #1131 (permalink)  
 
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WTF about tail strike on TAKEOFF? Do I miss something?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:40
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Even if it wasn't heard it might have been detected as an over-rotation i.e to too great an angle - and commented upon. Would need to consider though that it might have occurred on landing and missed on the walkround.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:40
  #1133 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Indarra View Post
Could a tailstrike on takeoff at Sharm validly be considered as a possible initiating incident in this case?
I think this was mentioned early on together with the hope of a runway inspection.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:44
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Regarding the CVR, read post #1138.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:50
  #1135 (permalink)  
 
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Tail strike on takeoff/landing at Sharm?

Should be relatively easy to rule out if there are pictures of the underside of the tail - is any abrasion damage visible?


I asked earlier in the thread if ACARS messages had been disclosed/mentioned at all (but I think it was buried) - does anyone know if the airline subscribed to any services?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:59
  #1136 (permalink)  
 
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That's certainly true - 5 eyes - at least - will all be sharing the intel. and i dont doubt the US sat flash detection making it credible.

but that rather makes it even more surprising that the other 4 eyes havent stopped their flights, to say nothing of their european partners (perhaps not up there in the intel world, they do at least nominally cooperate on terrorism etc).

Are we suggesting that they care less about their citizens?

Perhaps it';s basically been agreed that the British are at the airport and making it safer for the rest of them.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 15:02
  #1137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wdowell View Post
What I cannot compute in my head is that, if the evidence is so compelling, why havent the German and French authorities [who, at least, have nationals of theirs on scene] stopped their flights?
Because there is not any flight between France and SSH and lufthansa has cancelled all their flights.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 15:10
  #1138 (permalink)  
 
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"makes it even more surprising that the other 4 eyes havent stopped their flights"

What flights? Are there any five eyes powers other than the UK operating in and out of SSH? Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand...nope, none of them operate there.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 15:22
  #1139 (permalink)  
 
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and it would cause the ox masks to drop
BTW, I can't see common ox masks mess at any photo... They are deployed manually?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 15:24
  #1140 (permalink)  
 
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We've seen here the reports of pilots "not hearing" a tailstrike.
I'm a flight test engineer. We did abused-takeoff tests a few years ago on a 707-class aircraft, where we inadvertently struck the tail, requiring skin repairs. We saw the high pitch on takeoff but did not know we'd struck the tail until we landed several hours later. The noise and vibration at full throttle masked any sound of scraping.

It was a relatively light skin scrape, so my experience might not be representative of a strike doing enough damage to potentially cause subsequent structural failure of a rib or stringer. That would require a longer-duration scrape which the pilot would probably note as a hesitation in pitch rotation, even if it was not heard.
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