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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:36
  #1101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
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the announcements today from both Russia and Egypt say no evidence of explosives.
Please don't repost false "source" rumors as official Russian position.

MOSCOW, November 5. /TASS/. A group of criminal experts will analyze possibility of a terrorist attack on board the Russian plane that crashed in Egypt on Saturday, the head of the Russian aviation agency said on Thursday.

"A criminal group will look for traces of explosives on the planeís remains, luggage, cabin baggage and bodies of passengers," Sergey Neradko said.

According to him, the commission conducting an investigation into the crash of the A321 jet over the Sinai Peninsula has no versions of its causes at the moment.

"Meticulous and consistent work is underway to gather all evidence relating to this plane crash," he said, urging media not to gamble on various versions of the disasterís causes.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:38
  #1102 (permalink)  
 
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Kulverstukas.
Is that a photo from the wing???

Is that upper part or lower..?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:41
  #1103 (permalink)  
 
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Sinai plane crash: Russia and Egypt urge caution on bomb theory - BBC News

the only people talking about a bomb attack are the British and they are nowhere near the investigation.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:48
  #1104 (permalink)  
 
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If you are referring to the picture in #1096 then that is part of the fuselage. It looks to me like the skin lap joint and window are visible
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:48
  #1105 (permalink)  
 
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Sinai plane crash: Russia and Egypt urge caution on bomb theory - BBC News

the only people talking about a bomb attack are the British and they are nowhere near the investigation.
Take word out of context, add some introduction that can be read both ways, then invent shouting headline, stir not shake and you are here.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:50
  #1106 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Rhino, I suggested a reason at #1099. There has probably been chatter picked up and a tentative conclusion drawn that a bomb might have been a cause.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:50
  #1107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flightmech View Post
If this was indeed a deliberate act (explosive device) and target specific (Russians) then why select Metrojet? No disrespect intended but there are more high-profile Russian carriers operating into SSH with larger equipment? I guess if this was the case it's mission accomplished for the terrorist regardless.
Considering this is the deadliest air disaster in Soviet/Russian history, does the airline choice really matter? It's a serious "accomplishment" as it is (provided it was indeed a terrorist act).
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:51
  #1108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by oleostrut View Post
"If this had ailowed flex of the whole tail ,what would sudden change in geometry of screw jack and internal struts do to angle of HS?"

Initially HS load would change from download to upload. Upload intensity would increase as fuselage crack widened.

It is interesting to note the jackscrew is still in the tail, it is visible in the photos several pages back, but no sign at all of any HS pieces still on tail.
seeing that the HS compartment is missing and the bit at te top under the TP is bent upwards I can't see that the screw jack is present, could you please identify post(s) where it can be seen. Ta
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:54
  #1109 (permalink)  
 
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I am not convinced by the bomb theory.
I would not be suprised if the THS actuator screwjack had failed, be it attributed to inherant structural defect or lack of maintenance. This would, at this moment in time answer more questions than the bomb theory.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:55
  #1110 (permalink)  
 
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Kulverstukas,

if it was caused by explosives they should know by now, that is all I am saying nothing more or less. The politics are beyond me.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:56
  #1111 (permalink)  
 
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Guys stop the Bomb theory stuff it doesn't make sense.

If the bad guys were to smuggle a bomb on board don't think they would have chosen a larger target than a Airbus A321?
Plus, bomb residue would have been ruled out from simple lab tests or Bomb dogs.
It simply make no sense. Of course the bad guys will take responsibility for the the terrorist act. Even when they have no idea what they are taking credit for.
Stick with the the structural facts. There's nothing to be gained from any of this
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 13:56
  #1112 (permalink)  
 
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mikedreamer787 May I ask if anything concrete has come out of the investigation yet?
Yes, an unnamed source according to CNN says that US Intelligence Services have a "definite feeling" that it was a bomb . . .

Last edited by Biggles1957; 5th Nov 2015 at 13:58. Reason: Biggles1957
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:01
  #1113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RHINO View Post
Sinai plane crash: Russia and Egypt urge caution on bomb theory - BBC News

the only people talking about a bomb attack are the British and they are nowhere near the investigation.

Damn I must have imagined the USA has released statements saying TWO heat flashes detected by satellite, one in the air other on ground impact, must stop eating cheese for supper.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:02
  #1114 (permalink)  
 
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APU-related fuel explosion as source of IR heat event?

I find this fuel explosion hypothesis a credible possibility purely by elimination, so technically informed readers may be able to contradict it definitively. The absence of plausible acknowledgement by Daesh /Al Q'aeda and the apparent irrelevance of missile involvement moves the focus to the heat flash as the most plausible published evidence of a bomb. The UK seem to have plumped for the bomb theory on a safety-first basis, and have pretty well admitted that the overall case is not overwhelming.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:02
  #1115 (permalink)  
 
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"seeing that the HS compartment is missing and the bit at te top under the TP is bent upwards I can't see that the screw jack is present, could you please identify post(s) where it can be seen. Ta"

The compartment is not missing at all. The entire upper part is present, including the jackscrew. What is missing is the 2 struts that support the hinge assy of the HS and the HS itself (less the snapped off part already found.)

Will take a while, but will find the photo for you. With all the post numbers being jumbled by the censors, all my linked numbers are no good.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:09
  #1116 (permalink)  
 
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What I cannot compute in my head is that, if the evidence is so compelling, why havent the German and French authorities [who, at least, have nationals of theirs on scene] stopped their flights?

The British seem to be acting more out of a fear that the airport security is apparently weak at the airport in question, than the actual evidence of this particular incident.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:12
  #1117 (permalink)  
 
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The injuries and damage caused by a small explosion and exposure to a 400 knot wind blast display remarkable similarities, especially if a flash fire also erupts. The cellulose coating on playing cards can give positive readings for explosives as evidenced by the IRA bombing convictions in the 1970s which were subsequently overturned many years later. Plenty of other common aromatic chemicals can cause false detection of explosive residues, so these all have to be eliminated by minute and careful analysis before a definite statement can be made as to whether explosives of any sort were involved.

I doubt very much if a surveillance satellite could detect the heat signature of anything less than several kilos of explosive under daylight conditions. It is far more likely that the two heat flashes were the fuel tanks exploding in the air and the final impact on the ground.

Several kilos of explosive would have left obvious visible marks on the airframe and passengers, whereas sub kilo amounts would be unlikely to cause an immediate break up of the aircraft. Cargo holds and floor panels have been reinforced and blow out panels fitted since the 747 was brought down by a bomb at Lockerbie.

Some form of structural failure is still the most likely cause. Although composite components have been used in aircraft for many years, there is still no complete understanding of their fatigue life and failure mechanisms. Internal delamination of parts can go completely unnoticed under visual inspection and without subjecting them to ultrasound and other non destructive tests such faults will continue to propagate invisibly through the component until sudden failure. Such tests take a lot of time and need expert interpretation, therefore costing a lot of money to conduct.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:15
  #1118 (permalink)  
 
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Wdowell makes a good point.

There must be thousands of German/Dutch/French/Italian etc people now in Sharm.

Assuming their flights are arriving and departing as normal today ?

This is all very strange.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:16
  #1119 (permalink)  
 
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I fear we may have overlooked the recent Lufthansa announcement
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 14:19
  #1120 (permalink)  
 
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As far as I am aware NOBODY has stated that it was definately a bomb and the only people who have stated that it wasnt a bomb are the Egyptians.
UK are saying there is a high likelihood that it was a bomb and are therefore doing what one would expect a Government to do to ensure the safety of it's citizens.
The Russians are not saying a lot but appear to be awaiting more investigative results.
All the political conjecture and conspiracy theories are just that.
Having said that, I am a little surprised that the CVR is allegedly badly damaged and cant be interpreted yet, having seen the photographs earlier that showed it in pretty good condition. Could it be that it HAS been listened to and that release of the content is being delayed for whatever reason?
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