BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
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sky9, this photo with door was discussed here earlier. It's suspicious but not real proof yet. Second photo - I doubt that such "leaf" can survive fall from 10 km undamaged and even not rotated around it's stalk.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Next to the hole, just left, there appears to be a loose fragement originating from the hole.
I make hmmm because it's the first shoot where I see hole which looks like it was done before or while plane was still on fire.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Estonia
Posts: 75
hole on right side
Kulverstukas, it looks like projectile originated from cargo bay.
BUT! inner part of edges aren't covered with soot. That puncture thus did not happen before impacting ground?
BUT! inner part of edges aren't covered with soot. That puncture thus did not happen before impacting ground?
Last edited by Prada; 5th Nov 2015 at 12:07.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 202
pax seats scorched?
on RT HD news at 1200 gmt
large clear video shows 2 seat rows that were found away from main wreckage
imho all the grey leather seat backs do very possibly look scorched (one outer and the middle seat looks burnt at the top) and are not covered in sand dust -
the lack of lower marks are characteristic maybe with someone sitting in the seats.
with most marks on the top and sides of seats except the outer seat which could a window or aisle which is very marked/burnt (empty or a child)
the seat cushions where still attached do not show the ''scorching''
some other seats i have seen were sadly blood stained but these were not scorched
large clear video shows 2 seat rows that were found away from main wreckage
imho all the grey leather seat backs do very possibly look scorched (one outer and the middle seat looks burnt at the top) and are not covered in sand dust -
the lack of lower marks are characteristic maybe with someone sitting in the seats.
with most marks on the top and sides of seats except the outer seat which could a window or aisle which is very marked/burnt (empty or a child)
the seat cushions where still attached do not show the ''scorching''
some other seats i have seen were sadly blood stained but these were not scorched
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
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I don't know how this happened, but it strikes me that the HS broke at least at one point (don't know if it did broke at the other side also like at the left side or departed "only" in two pieces) and the VS is also lost, only the leading edge and the skin attached to the fuselage stay there (this point to vertical only acceleration/s, compare with flight 587). For me, the fuselage could not be badly damaged before, otherwise you don't have the leverage, also see engine pylon damage.
Edit: also someone pointed here to the long fuel line of the APU still there, that would probably not happen if the fuselage was compromised first.
Edit: also someone pointed here to the long fuel line of the APU still there, that would probably not happen if the fuselage was compromised first.
Last edited by Mauersegler; 5th Nov 2015 at 12:40.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Torquay UK
Age: 92
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Tail section including fin and rear doors
Originally Posted by Mauersegler
I don't know how happened, but it strikes me that the HS broke at least at one point (don't know if it did broke at the other side also like at the left side or departed "only" in two pieces) and the VS is also lost, only the leading edge and the skin attached to the fuselage stay there (this point to vertical only acceleration/s, compare with flight 587). For me, the fuselage could not be badly damaged before, otherwise you don't have the leverage, also see engine pylon damage.
If this had ailowed flex of the whole tail ,what would sudden change in geometry of screw jack and internal struts do to angle of HS?
Overload??
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wales
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Originally Posted by A0283
Kulver that hole was pointed out by another poster a bit earlier in the thread as far as i know.
Next to the hole, just left, there appears to be a loose fragement originating from the hole. If so, then this would not comply with a high speed object punching through. It would suggest either a component pushed through on impact or a hole made by recovery teams to move panels.
I have it on my possible but as yet low probability 'list'.
Another explanation could be that it was one of the 'leaves' folded open, and this being one leaf breaking off on impact.
Is indeed the first one that could point to an inward-out punch. If it was outside-in, then, depending on the location of the panel, it could also be debris impact during the breakup sequence.
Next to the hole, just left, there appears to be a loose fragement originating from the hole. If so, then this would not comply with a high speed object punching through. It would suggest either a component pushed through on impact or a hole made by recovery teams to move panels.
I have it on my possible but as yet low probability 'list'.
Another explanation could be that it was one of the 'leaves' folded open, and this being one leaf breaking off on impact.
Is indeed the first one that could point to an inward-out punch. If it was outside-in, then, depending on the location of the panel, it could also be debris impact during the breakup sequence.
if you look at this image you will see that the Flapped out bit has a perfect circular impression "stamped" in it before it tore away from skin. Dut to its location below a window I suggest that was cause by the impact of a seat rail.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
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Originally Posted by Ivor Fynn
FE Hoppy,
I believe you are incorrect the photo that @mitrosft eludes to is one of the best indicators to me of an explosion of some variety at the rear of the aircraft. They are clearly puncture marks caused by some form of shrapnel.
Ivor
I believe you are incorrect the photo that @mitrosft eludes to is one of the best indicators to me of an explosion of some variety at the rear of the aircraft. They are clearly puncture marks caused by some form of shrapnel.
Ivor
Can you tell that from a picture?
It is known from the pieces that the aircraft broke its back probably due to a high negative g bunt. A similar accident in an RAF aircraft that lost its tail led to more than minus 12 g. The break of the 321 fuselage just aft of the wings exposed the internal part of the rear fuselage to pieces of airframe, aircraft skin and other cabin detritus at more than 400kts. I put it to you that the damage would not be significantly different to a small bomb it may in fact be more extensive.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 75
"If this had ailowed flex of the whole tail ,what would sudden change in geometry of screw jack and internal struts do to angle of HS?"
Initially HS load would change from download to upload. Upload intensity would increase as fuselage crack widened.
It is interesting to note the jackscrew is still in the tail, it is visible in the photos several pages back, but no sign at all of any HS pieces still on tail.
Initially HS load would change from download to upload. Upload intensity would increase as fuselage crack widened.
It is interesting to note the jackscrew is still in the tail, it is visible in the photos several pages back, but no sign at all of any HS pieces still on tail.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: EGSS
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If this was indeed a deliberate act (explosive device) and target specific (Russians) then why select Metrojet? No disrespect intended but there are more high-profile Russian carriers operating into SSH with larger equipment? I guess if this was the case it's mission accomplished for the terrorist regardless.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wales
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Originally Posted by Prada
Kulverstukas, it looks like projectile originated from cargo bay.
BUT! inner part of edges aren't covered with soot. That puncture thus did not happen before impacting ground?
BUT! inner part of edges aren't covered with soot. That puncture thus did not happen before impacting ground?
from what I can see neither is the underside of the displaced piece, almost certainly ground impact damage
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Originally Posted by Flightmech
If this was indeed a deliberate act (explosive device) and target specific (Russians) then why select Metrojet? No disrespect intended but there are more high-profile Russian carriers operating into SSH with larger equipment? I guess if this was the case it's mission accomplished for the terrorist regardless.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
"The data of the flight data recorder (FDR) have been copied and handed to the investigating commission for deciphering, processing and analysing"
MOSCOW, November 4. /TASS/. The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) of the Russian A321 plane that came down in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday has been seriously damaged while the data from the flight data recorder have been copied and handed to the commission investigating the crash, the Interstate Aviation Committee said on Wednesday.
"The cockpit voice recorder has suffered serious mechanical damage," the committee said. "Now in Egypt, the preparatory work with participation of experts of the IAC and France’s BEA [the Bureau of Enquiry and Analysis for civil aviation safety] is being done to copy the recorded information, taking all possible precautionary measures."
"The data of the flight data recorder (FDR) have been copied and handed to the investigating commission for deciphering, processing and analysing," IAC said.
MOSCOW, November 4. /TASS/. The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) of the Russian A321 plane that came down in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday has been seriously damaged while the data from the flight data recorder have been copied and handed to the commission investigating the crash, the Interstate Aviation Committee said on Wednesday.
"The cockpit voice recorder has suffered serious mechanical damage," the committee said. "Now in Egypt, the preparatory work with participation of experts of the IAC and France’s BEA [the Bureau of Enquiry and Analysis for civil aviation safety] is being done to copy the recorded information, taking all possible precautionary measures."
"The data of the flight data recorder (FDR) have been copied and handed to the investigating commission for deciphering, processing and analysing," IAC said.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
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Originally Posted by cloudhawke
Is there a way to sabotage the aircraft so that the HS eventually departed, without using an explosive device?
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Perhaps someone can shed some light on this discrepancy
Hi, new here and have been following this thread since the beginning. there is a discrepancy with info posted I have trouble with.
Two days ago:
"Before the moment of the disappearance of the aircraft from radar screens, sounds are recorded which are not characteristic of a normal flight," Interfax quoted an unnamed security source in Cairo as saying.
Today:
"The cockpit voice recorder has suffered serious mechanical damage," the committee said. "Now in Egypt, the preparatory work with participation of experts of the IAC and France’s BEA [the Bureau of Enquiry and Analysis for civil aviation safety] is being done to copy the recorded information, taking all possible precautionary measures."
The latter makes me wonder what was heard, provided the former info is correct. Or is it another case of "misinformation" attributable to an "unnamed source"?
Two days ago:
"Before the moment of the disappearance of the aircraft from radar screens, sounds are recorded which are not characteristic of a normal flight," Interfax quoted an unnamed security source in Cairo as saying.
Today:
"The cockpit voice recorder has suffered serious mechanical damage," the committee said. "Now in Egypt, the preparatory work with participation of experts of the IAC and France’s BEA [the Bureau of Enquiry and Analysis for civil aviation safety] is being done to copy the recorded information, taking all possible precautionary measures."
The latter makes me wonder what was heard, provided the former info is correct. Or is it another case of "misinformation" attributable to an "unnamed source"?
