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American Airlines Pilot Dies in Flight BOS-PHX

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American Airlines Pilot Dies in Flight BOS-PHX

Old 7th Oct 2015, 06:48
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IF,There was a physician seated in row 1F why he was not called in? Are rules bigger than the human life?
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 07:41
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Originally Posted by theAP
IF,There was a physician seated in row 1F why he was not called in? Are rules bigger than the human life?
What could he (or she) have done that the flight attendant/former ER nurse wasn't able to do?
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 08:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theAP View Post
IF,There was a physician seated in row 1F why he was not called in? Are rules bigger than the human life?
What could he (or she) have done that the flight attendant/former ER nurse wasn't able to do?
WTF? That has to be the stupidest post I've seen to date.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 09:41
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Perhaps he moved to the left seat.

Not sure that would be a good idea.

Everything is in the 'wrong' place when you shift seats (and have not done so before). Every switch, knob and gauge becomes difficult to locate and your other hand may not be as 'skilled' in flying. Why would you want to compress a 2-month command training program into 10 minutes? Much easier to stay in the seat you are used to.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 10:16
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A good job the FO was somehow able to manage to taxi the aircraft onto stand although not permitted to normally... what an odd restriction.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 10:43
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IF,There was a physician seated in row 1F why he was not called in? Are rules bigger than the human life?
What could he (or she) have done that the flight attendant/former ER nurse wasn't able to do?

WTF? That has to be the stupidest post I've seen to date.
Why is that so stupid? Common sense would be to use whatever help is available. But, if the FA was an experienced ER nurse, she might well be far more capable and experienced in resuscitation than many Doctors. I used to be a Paramedic, once two Doctors offered their help whilst I was resuscitating someone, one turned out to be an Eye Specialist, the other a Forensic Pathologist, neither as qualified or experienced (in resuscitation) as myself (or any ER Nurse)
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 11:42
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Why is that so stupid? Common sense would be to use whatever help is available. But, if the FA was an experienced ER nurse, she might well be far more capable and experienced in resuscitation than many Doctors. I used to be a Paramedic, once two Doctors offered their help whilst I was resuscitating someone, one turned out to be an Eye Specialist, the other a Forensic Pathologist, neither as qualified or experienced (in resuscitation) as myself (or any ER Nurse)
A little off thread, but this is quite true. And as there is no ACLS equipment or cardiac med's aboard, just CPR, O2 and defib., nothing above an "First Responder" (below EMT-Basic) level of care can be given anyway.

Over 30 years of flying on airliners as a passenger, as an EMT I've had the opportunity to volunteer medical services three times. Two out of the three times even with other nurses and doctors aboard I was the most confident and practiced at emergency medicine. The third time it was an ER nurse who ruled the roost, although I had to get the BP because it was "too noisy" for her . Thankfully in all three cases the patient was not in dire straights and no diversions were necessary, although the plane was met by EMS and the patients taken off first in an abundance of caution.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 11:55
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. And as there is no ACLS equipment or cardiac med's aboard, just CPR, O2 and defib., nothing above an "First Responder" (below EMT-Basic) level of care can be given anyway.
How ever it is not just the case of not having suitable equipment on board.

In-flight surgery with a coat-hanger and silverware

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Wallace

"In the aftermath, Wallace and Wong published a brief article in the British Medical Journal about the incident. Wallace also testified before a Parliamentary committee investigating British airlines' alleged lack of investment in on-board medical equipment.] He was even more critical of US airlines in this regard, noting that his efforts would have been impossible with typical US airline medical kits not even containing aspirin, and stated that "There needs to be a major change in attitudes in the U.S., both from the government and from the airlines."
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 13:05
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Exclamation

A good job the FO was somehow able to manage to taxi the aircraft onto stand although not permitted to normally... what an odd restriction.
I have asked this question many times why the first officer is not allowed to taxi and have never received an acceptable answer. I believe that not one airline in the US is allowed to taxi from the RHS.

So much for progress ...
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 13:33
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Alamo - AA 777 didn't prohibit it several years ago. Stock answer was "FO's aren't trained so you're on your own." My reply - but they can make high speed turnoffs, they can use the pedals to steer on taxiways if I give them the airplane, both events that aren't 'trained', but touching the NWS tiller is taboo?

I let them taxi after the after landing checklist is complete to the ramp.

Last edited by misd-agin; 7th Oct 2015 at 13:33. Reason: Typo
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 14:11
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I would like to know if you can use the defibrillator on a sitting person, or if that person has to lie flat.
There are no restrictions that I know of against using a defibrillator on somebody in the upright position, however with somebody in cardiac arrest CPR needs to be performed as the AED warms up and analyzes the rhythm before it can be activated. CPR then needs to be continued if the shock isn't successful until the next shock can be administered. CPR is only really effective with the patient lying down on a hard surface, so that would require moving them from the seat to the floor.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 15:22
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tatelyle:

Not sure that would be a good idea.

Everything is in the 'wrong' place when you shift seats (and have not done so before). Every switch, knob and gauge becomes difficult to locate and your other hand may not be as 'skilled' in flying. Why would you want to compress a 2-month command training program into 10 minutes? Much easier to stay in the seat you are used to.
I agree completely. And, in an airplane with only one tiller the F/O would be well advised to remain in the right seat, then moved to the left seat when stopped on the runway, then taxi in.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 15:51
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Im astounded that the FO is not allowed to taxi the aircraft in USA! In my UK airline the F/O, when its his sector does just that, from A320 to A380 and all the Boeings in between, from engine start to shutdown on the Gate.
Are they that inexperienced in USA?

.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 17:38
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If in fact they didn't call for a doctor, then there would be no pronouncement of death, hence, the need for a diversion. We had a similar situation last year over Eastern Siberia. We had called for a doctor but no one had come forward. However, once we began the process of deciding our diversion point and warned our crew, suddenly a doctor appeared and made the pronouncement that our passenger had passed away (there is far more to this story than I am prepared to go into, but you get the gist). We decided to continue to destination versus diverting to a Russian outpost.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 20:25
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I have asked this question many times why the first officer is not allowed to taxi and have never received an acceptable answer. I believe that not one airline in the US is allowed to taxi from the RHS.
Not true. Our FOs taxi our 744s from the right seat.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 21:49
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RHS Taxiing

Why would a copilot assume the additional responsibility of routinely taxiing the aircraft if he/she is not being paid commensurately for that responsibility?
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 21:55
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Why would a copilot assume the additional responsibility of routinely taxiing the aircraft if he/she is not being paid commensurately for that responsibility?
Why would a regionals pilot assume the additional responsibility of routinely flying the aircraft if he/she is not being paid commensurately for that responsibility?
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 22:29
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Originally Posted by Marck
Why would a regionals pilot assume the additional responsibility of routinely flying the aircraft if he/she is not being paid commensurately for that responsibility?
So what does the regional pilot get himself if he has a taxi accident?

Terminated, maybe. Little to no chance for a future job at the majors, most certainly.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 22:42
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Possible Answer for Why the MD Wasn't Called

OK, I am a physician AND a pilot (non-airline). Here is one possibility as to why the MD seated in FC wasn't called, nor apparently was any effort made to seek professional help... by the time the FO realized that the Captain wasn't just napping, it was already too late. If the FO had witnessed an "event", the FA would have been called and an immediate call for medical help would have been made.... all mainline US airliners have onboard automatic external defribrillatots. If the AED had been used within a few minutes after a witnessed cardiac arrest, it is possible that the Captain may have been saved.

So that is my take... I do not know how often one pilot or the other takes turns napping on redeye flights, but in this particular instance, the FO believed that the captain was asleep, and it is only within an hour of landing and 15 minutes of beginning the descent that he tried to awaken the left seat only to discover that he was unresponsive, not breathing and pulseless. Hence, no attempt to resuscitate.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 23:22
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...it is only within an hour of landing and 15 minutes of beginning the descent that he tried to awaken the left seat only to discover that he was unresponsive, not breathing and pulseless. Hence, no attempt to resuscitate.
Problem is, the FO had no way of knowing that the pilot hadn't just died. So he'd need to call up a doctor anyway.
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