Latest On Age 60-plus
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Yotter
Link still works This link
JAR Sections
will take you to the html page from there open pdf file on JAR-FCL 1 Flight Crew Licensing (Aeroplane) then it is JAR-FCL 1.060 page 1-A-8
Good Luck
TB
You are entitled to your opinion as everyone else. If that differs from others and you perceive this as "obnoxious, conceited and arrogant " then that is your problem.
Your physical attributes, financial dependency or the fact that the employment market was not kind to your case have no relevant to the consideration of retirement. If the rules say go then go you must.
May be like Notso Fantastic you should read this link
Educate
However as this is your first post and considering your old age maybe an exception can be granted this time
Link still works This link
JAR Sections
will take you to the html page from there open pdf file on JAR-FCL 1 Flight Crew Licensing (Aeroplane) then it is JAR-FCL 1.060 page 1-A-8
Good Luck
TB
You are entitled to your opinion as everyone else. If that differs from others and you perceive this as "obnoxious, conceited and arrogant " then that is your problem.
Your physical attributes, financial dependency or the fact that the employment market was not kind to your case have no relevant to the consideration of retirement. If the rules say go then go you must.
May be like Notso Fantastic you should read this link
Educate
However as this is your first post and considering your old age maybe an exception can be granted this time
Last edited by Engineer; 28th Jun 2002 at 17:16.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Everyone knows that 60 is the time to go so we all have enough time to prepare for it. Research shows that risk for an accident or incident increases past that age. As we can all see from most of the comments made by our older generation pilots, the mind becomes stubborn and closed to new ideas and new operating philosophies. Considering any pilot sitting in the flight deck of a large transport aircraft "wet behind the ears" because he/ she did not get their wings when the DC3 was state of the art equipment is disqualified as a competent team leader.
does the airline need the burden to schedule their pilots based on the fact that overflight permissions are not available because the pilot is too old?
speaking of this, i think in australia pilots are only allowed to operate domestic services once they are 60 and are subject to very strict psychological and medical testing. can anyone provide a list of the countries that prohibit overflight past 60?
does the airline need the burden to schedule their pilots based on the fact that overflight permissions are not available because the pilot is too old?
speaking of this, i think in australia pilots are only allowed to operate domestic services once they are 60 and are subject to very strict psychological and medical testing. can anyone provide a list of the countries that prohibit overflight past 60?
Join Date: May 2002
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Absolute Rubbish - Magnum
As has been stated already on this thread, when those who are now about to reach the age of sixty started their commercial career, in the UK, the retirement age was 65 and it was on that age we made our plans.
There is absolutely no evidence within aviation to suggest that pilots over 60 are more likely to have an accident/incident, just more rubbish of the same ilk Magnum, check it out with AME's who have done a study on over 60 pilots.
Provided all the countries involved abide by the same age regulations there is no burden to schedule older pilots any differently to the younger ones, those countries that currently keep the age at sixty do not do so for any safety considerations but from union pressure and lobbying, (France, Italy, India, USA etc.).
Before entering a discussion with inflamatory nonsense how about a bit of genuine research Magnum?
There is absolutely no evidence within aviation to suggest that pilots over 60 are more likely to have an accident/incident, just more rubbish of the same ilk Magnum, check it out with AME's who have done a study on over 60 pilots.
Provided all the countries involved abide by the same age regulations there is no burden to schedule older pilots any differently to the younger ones, those countries that currently keep the age at sixty do not do so for any safety considerations but from union pressure and lobbying, (France, Italy, India, USA etc.).
Before entering a discussion with inflamatory nonsense how about a bit of genuine research Magnum?
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Well, one has to wonder just who is talking rubbish here!
When I joined the airlines in Oz at the age of 23 the last thing on my mind was to "make my plans" based on the then retiring age. Anybody who says otherwise is either disingenuous or decidedly strange!
Besides, the retiring age was then 55 and is now open ended...so, so much for that argument!
Why dont you do what I and most retired pilots did. Retire graciously when your time is up and stop bitching about how hard done by you have been!
When I joined the airlines in Oz at the age of 23 the last thing on my mind was to "make my plans" based on the then retiring age. Anybody who says otherwise is either disingenuous or decidedly strange!
Besides, the retiring age was then 55 and is now open ended...so, so much for that argument!
Why dont you do what I and most retired pilots did. Retire graciously when your time is up and stop bitching about how hard done by you have been!
Join Date: May 2002
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Amos2 - my arguments are very valid and I stand by them, QANTAS may have had an INTERNALLY agreed retirement age of 55, as did CX, BA etc. all airlines one could join and expect a full career with about 30 years into a pension/provident fund. Just when exactly did the whole of Australia have a mandatory retirement age of 55?
Magnum said words to the effect that we knew the retirement age when we started and we should have planned accordingly, you are saying that no one would make such plans?
When I and many others started our commercial career in the UK the retirement age was 65 and we would have been plain stupid not to have used the agreed retirement age of the day as a significant point in our planning.
If you bothered to read this and other threads about retirement age you would discover, Amos2, that we are more concerned at the most arrogant attitude of youngsters who simply expect us to get out of their way than we are by the prospect of actual retirement. Suggest you read a few of the posts above and get the real picture, TBadger and Ooizcalling should do for a start.
Really glad that you are so happy and complacent, difficult to imagine a more selfish attitude.
Magnum said words to the effect that we knew the retirement age when we started and we should have planned accordingly, you are saying that no one would make such plans?
When I and many others started our commercial career in the UK the retirement age was 65 and we would have been plain stupid not to have used the agreed retirement age of the day as a significant point in our planning.
If you bothered to read this and other threads about retirement age you would discover, Amos2, that we are more concerned at the most arrogant attitude of youngsters who simply expect us to get out of their way than we are by the prospect of actual retirement. Suggest you read a few of the posts above and get the real picture, TBadger and Ooizcalling should do for a start.
Really glad that you are so happy and complacent, difficult to imagine a more selfish attitude.
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I think that one should be thinking in the following terms:
1) That imposing an age limit of 55/56, or any other age up to and below the age of 60 yrs ( as a CDR), should be considered as discriminatory?
2) If, JAR rules stipulate, that you may fly as a CDR until you are 60 yr. Then, this should be the retirement age and not any other. After that I might add you can continue as a F/O, until 65yr (JAR-FCL 1.060).
3) Labour agreements suggest or impose the age limits, with the consent of the majority of it's members. Is this legal or not? Is this discrimination or not? Thes are the questions we should be asking ourselves.
4) For those of you whom still ponder on the fact that they did not sart flying on DC-3's and the likes. And refer to the ones who did, in certain, but, in aderogatory way. I would suggest, that they ponder more on the idea, that, when they reach the age of 60yrs, they might also be looked opon, as pilots from another era, whom started on a B-737! I just hope that by then, that their outlook on our profesion, would be more mature!
Me thinks, that if you meet the requirements, and you want to continue on flying. Then, you should be allowed too, untill you reach then legal age limit?
1) That imposing an age limit of 55/56, or any other age up to and below the age of 60 yrs ( as a CDR), should be considered as discriminatory?
2) If, JAR rules stipulate, that you may fly as a CDR until you are 60 yr. Then, this should be the retirement age and not any other. After that I might add you can continue as a F/O, until 65yr (JAR-FCL 1.060).
3) Labour agreements suggest or impose the age limits, with the consent of the majority of it's members. Is this legal or not? Is this discrimination or not? Thes are the questions we should be asking ourselves.
4) For those of you whom still ponder on the fact that they did not sart flying on DC-3's and the likes. And refer to the ones who did, in certain, but, in aderogatory way. I would suggest, that they ponder more on the idea, that, when they reach the age of 60yrs, they might also be looked opon, as pilots from another era, whom started on a B-737! I just hope that by then, that their outlook on our profesion, would be more mature!
Me thinks, that if you meet the requirements, and you want to continue on flying. Then, you should be allowed too, untill you reach then legal age limit?
I wonder if my experience is typical of some of us forced out at age 60 but still wanting to fly.
Probably the saddest day of my life was cutting the start levers on my B737 at the aerobridge on my last flight after reaching forced retirement at age 60. I was desolated because I love flying and still do. Now 10 years later I still fly in GA despite the clapped out state of the aircraft. Why? Because I will always love flying - and the fact that as a matter of pride I still hold an ATPL and Command instrument rating.
I would have preferred to keep on flying the 737 of course - I still keep current in a simulator - but it will never ever happen. All I know is that it was a damned sight safer and easier to fly the 737 than it is to flog around in a beaten up Navajo without radar and terrible cockpit lighting.
The annoying thing is that each time I pick up thirty five bucks an hour for instructing on a Cessna 172, I have to declare it to Social Sucks (Welfare) - who promptly deduct it from my old age pension each fortnight.
Love of flying does that to you!!
Probably the saddest day of my life was cutting the start levers on my B737 at the aerobridge on my last flight after reaching forced retirement at age 60. I was desolated because I love flying and still do. Now 10 years later I still fly in GA despite the clapped out state of the aircraft. Why? Because I will always love flying - and the fact that as a matter of pride I still hold an ATPL and Command instrument rating.
I would have preferred to keep on flying the 737 of course - I still keep current in a simulator - but it will never ever happen. All I know is that it was a damned sight safer and easier to fly the 737 than it is to flog around in a beaten up Navajo without radar and terrible cockpit lighting.
The annoying thing is that each time I pick up thirty five bucks an hour for instructing on a Cessna 172, I have to declare it to Social Sucks (Welfare) - who promptly deduct it from my old age pension each fortnight.
Love of flying does that to you!!
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Retirement or Repositioning.
Any thoughts on moving over to the right hand seat at 60 and possibly giving someone the benefit of your experience. In the nicest possible way of course.
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Quite an acceptable practice whilst waiting for the rules to revert to common sense and some operators do it. BUT, when a country has a 'no-overfly' rule as well then most companies reasonably, in my view, that require to overfly such countries have to say that, for the time being, sixty is the limit.
The age limit is on its way up but is taking longer than necessary for all the reasons stated above.
The age limit is on its way up but is taking longer than necessary for all the reasons stated above.
