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Cockpit TV testing to start in UK?

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Cockpit TV testing to start in UK?

Old 13th Jun 2002, 05:06
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Cockpit TV testing to start in UK?

as reported in AVflash today

UK authorities want to start testing the benefits of filming the cockpit of commercial airlines, but they're running into a little opposition. Many pilots are opposed to the plan and have threatened to strike if the Civil Aviation Authority implements
the idea. In general, pilots are concerned the tapes could be used against them or might wind up as a public broadcast following a crash. Cockpit cameras are already on the NTSB's "most-wanted list" of safety improvements.
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Old 13th Jun 2002, 12:27
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I can certainly understand the concerns, but if implemented under strict guidelines with restrictions on viewing and reviewing based around improving flight safety I would have no objections. The technology can be used as another peice in the jigsaw to reconstruct incidents giving a fuller insight into cause. We already have data recording to the extent that some companies monitor how pilots are flying and if they are 'deviating' from the prescribed method they are invited in for a chat.

The only problem I see is that what preventative/ corrective action would be taken if once installed the system were abused, cause let's face it the papers would love to get their hands on a 'shocker video'.

We all study CRM to hopefully prevent future incidents and I saw for the first time last month the Britannia training video of a made up scenaio in the sim. I found it an excellent tool for watching the event unfold, much more effective than 3 sides of A4 with radio transcripts and that all important 'body language' confirmed the tone of voice "I'm not happy with this".

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Old 14th Jun 2002, 15:48
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I'm not out to defend certain questionable members of the press here, but I'm not at all convinced that they'd like to get their hands on a "shocker" video. Can't speak for other parts of the world but UK news TV (which would be the only real medium for video coverage) is pretty strict about what it shows when flesh-and-blood people are involved. Even showing dead bodies after a massacre or battle is considered a borderline subject.

Personally I think the real threat comes from individuals on forums such as this one -- a quick click on the Internet would allow anyone see video footage with virtually no accountability.

I've been quite disgusted by the Airliners.net spotters who thought it would be "educational" to put the broadcast tape of a (ironically) news reporter's fatal helicopter accident on their forum.
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Old 14th Jun 2002, 19:37
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The desire for more information to be available following incidents must be weighed up against the intrusion into pilots lives and the inevitable missuse of these videos.
Already we have cases where contrary to local / international agreaments the existing tapes and data are being used to prosecute pilots.
A law set up now can be ammended in a few months, just look at how a law to allow the police to moniter your e-mails and mobile phone usage is being extended to allow local councils and the food standards agencies to view them!
The press would have no qualms in showing footage on TV. We already have High Street CCTV footage turning up on entertainment programes so how soon before even trivial incidents are being shown nationwide?
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Old 15th Jun 2002, 04:49
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I certainly Dont want it in my cockpit!
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Old 15th Jun 2002, 06:06
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Just another place to hang ones hat.
Old 15th Jun 2002, 08:37
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I'm sure the same arguments were made when CVR / FDR, and QAR's were suggested (WHAT !!!? ATC record our R/T ??)

Put into context, the value to help explain the causes / contributing factors to the long list of unexplained / unexplainable events, must outweigh the civil liberties fears.

The emphasis should be put on the correct procedural control of the data, as with all other sources, and while there will always be 'leaks' the efforts should be put into minimising these rather than stopping a system that could, and most likely would, save lives and improve procedures and cockpit design issues......

I can't quite see an operator releasing it's "Worlds Scariest Cockpit Video's" to prime time TV ! (Hmmm maybe a franchising opportunity here......)

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Old 15th Jun 2002, 11:31
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I'm not in the UK so my comments aren't really to be considered (regarding the specific topic here) , but I personally have no problem at all with a video camera in the cockpit.
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Old 15th Jun 2002, 13:55
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Its about time that they invested money and energy into real things that could save lives, such as: smoke hoods and bomb proof containers not stupid 'you've been framed' videos that really tell nothing more than CVRs.

Its about time the unions pulled their fingers out.
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Old 15th Jun 2002, 18:22
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Just to add my two cents worth - many workplaces, including the office where I work at the moment, have security cams running 24/7. I have always understood that they are there, among other reasons, (1) to ensure that no-one is intruding in an area where they should not be (2) possibly, although I am not sure of my facts here, to support any accusations made in cases of harrassment etc. and (3) maybe even to support allegations of "dereliction of duty" or not working properly.

The flight deck is an office albeit a rather small/restricted one compared with the spaces available to most people but if the tapes are known to be running surely this could be beneficial for CRM purposes? If it became clear, as has been cited before on PPRuNe, that certain flight deck members were behaving inappropriately (and I don't mean reading a newspaper, eating chocolate etc when the time is right) then issues can be caught before they escalate into a problem.

Or...am I missing the point somehow?

Last edited by brockenspectre; 15th Jun 2002 at 19:47.
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Old 17th Jun 2002, 17:24
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Well, brocken, if thats what its going to be used for, theyl sound to me pretty god reasons from our point of view for absolutely rejecting the idea of cockpit TV.

There are all sorts of vested interests riding on this -and flight safety is a long way down the list.
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Old 17th Jun 2002, 18:59
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It's not a "Candid Camera" show.

Multiple cameras will only be focused on overhead, glareshield, instrument panels and pedestal. At most, only a pilot's hands, would be visible to viewers of the digitally recorded video. It's only a matter of time before this technology will be required for transport category airplanes.

This technology, for example, could have corroborated the FDR data, showning the human fingers pulling the lever locked fuel ignition switches up and down into the Off position on the Eqypt Air 76. It would have helped in saving 17+ Million taxpayer dollars in extraordinary investigation efforts, only to prove that one of the pilots was a suicidal nut case.
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Old 20th Jun 2002, 21:56
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If I died in tragic circumstances I would not want my family to be thinking about the weight of the media being levied upon any authority pressurising for the release of cockpit footage.

It would happen, no matter what regulations are in place in the western world.

CCTV in the cabin, viewable by the flightcrew-there's a good safety idea worth persuing, especially if it means we don't have to leave our seat to get the trays taken out (or let the SCCM in during incapacitation).

Priorities, common sense.
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Old 20th Jun 2002, 22:40
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Flight safety GOOD!
However, sorry; whatever, there can not, nor will be, that protection to stop the eventuality of your mistake /fate being on the 10'O'clock news.
Seriously chaps'ets the CVR has been abused: we must refuse this.!!!!
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Old 21st Jun 2002, 09:12
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Thumbs up

Fresh Prince - coming soon to an airline near you (with a red and silver livery!)
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Old 23rd Jun 2002, 18:29
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TV on the flight deck??

Err....... I'm in - as long as we can get The Simpsons...

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Old 23rd Jun 2002, 19:26
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As a pilot, I understand there are nuances of aircraft operations one does not want seen on the evening news, at a management review, or even in training, for that matter.

As one who sometimes works in rather tense big-stakes non-aviation situations in which *everything* is photographed 100 percent of the time, I have to say that you quickly get used to it, whether or not you mind.

The problem is: there's a lot of money, jobs, lives, etc. riding on the success - or at least the non-failure - of every flight.

The folks with money, power, and choice who underwrite, authorize, and patronize aviation, respectively, want every possible means to assure that the process works as well as possible - especially to assure that catastrophic problems are detected and not repeated.

I believe the real wager is simple enough: either flight deck crews must accept and submit to a higher level of scrutiny in regard to every aspect of their work (just wait 'til they start with the bio-sensors) or face the alternative that hands-on crews will increasingly be designed out of the critical path in future airframe generations - and they'll still have to submit to intensified video and other kinds of logging.

It would be a shame if near-term personal discomfort and work-issue tactics led to a strategic displacement for the future role of the profession as a whole.
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Old 25th Jun 2002, 07:37
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I do not see the cockpit video as a problem as long as one or two conditions are met.

The first of these is that only the aircrafts controls and instrument panel are in view.

The second is that the pilots of the aircraft retain the copyright to the video images this would stop the press/TV using them without the consent of the pilot or the pilots estate.

Lastly the recording must be destroyed after each uneventfull flight.
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Old 25th Jun 2002, 22:34
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as things are presently proposed, a & c, neither of your conditions will be met. The instruments are already covered by the FDR. As for copyright, flight crew have no say in what CVR tapes are used for. What makes you think video will be different?

This raises many problems. cockpit Video tapes are likely to be used for all sorts of things which are to our disadvantage -sensational TV, law suits etc, with flight safety not getting much of a look-in.
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Old 25th Jun 2002, 23:03
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