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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:31
  #961 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
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Sadly, nothing seems to have been learned from previous pilot suicide/murder crashs that would not have happened without the bullet proof cage in the pointy edge of the plane.

Minutes before the crash the co-pilot left the cockpit to the aircraft lavatory. The captain then manually changed flight altitude from 38,000 feet to an altitude of 592 feet below ground level. He did this three times, according to investigators. He also retarded the throttles to idle. He also repeatedly manually selected the maximum operating speed (Vmo).
One the cockpit voice recorder sounds were heard of someone pounding on the cockpit door.


ASN News Investigators: LAM Embraer 190 accident likely intentionally caused by pilot
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:36
  #962 (permalink)  
 
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An easy solution, that will not happen due to accountants, is to include a toilet and galley behind the locked cockpit door.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:43
  #963 (permalink)  
 
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An easy solution, that will not happen due to accountants, is to include a toilet and galley behind the locked cockpit door.
Contrary to popular opinion, most professional pilots don't have time to cook their own food preflight or inflight. And their isn't simply enough space or the ability to retrofit a toilet and a galley in any modern airliners.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:44
  #964 (permalink)  
 
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An easy solution, that will not happen due to accountants, is to include a toilet and galley behind the locked cockpit door.
An easy solution?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:45
  #965 (permalink)  
 
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another easy solution is to always keep 2 crew member in a cokpit for exemple ?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:48
  #966 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I agree

U are absolutely right. With eliminating the engineer, the stability of the crew is compromised. A tripot is the most stable construction in the universe. Take a leg away and it crashes. I was ten years Captain on a B727 and found it the safest platform mainly because of the third crew. I flew also single pilot fighters and several two cockpit crew airplanes in corporate and airlines, B767 at the moment. Humanity is missing, that's right. At least the FAA got away from computers only flying now, others will follow, but engineers probably wont come back. Gladly I'm on a long range widebody now and we have usually one extra around.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:54
  #967 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Incap

If it were an incap, the crew could still gain entry. To deny access to all takes a concious effort by someone.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:55
  #968 (permalink)  
 
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I thought it would be good idea to post a link to a French TV-station following events minute by minute. For those who understand French.

BFMTV en Direct: regarder la chaine info en live - BFMTV

The debate now on air, is with a French Female Pilot and a retired BEA official.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 08:59
  #969 (permalink)  
 
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In the freighter I fly, we manage to make our own coffee, heat our own meals and use the toilet without the help of an air hostess, all the whilst complying with our SOP. If a galley and toilet were located behind the cockpit door and my colleague were to become suicidal, at least I would have a chance to disable him without being locked out of the office, as long as he doesnt have over 100ml of toothpaste or deoderant on him.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:01
  #970 (permalink)  
 
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Capster

That's lovely, but for those of us who carry hundreds of passengers, each of which could pose a threat, we need something to protect us.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:04
  #971 (permalink)  
 
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@full90

I'm not convinced that would work. 6ft determined pilot vs petite cabin crew member. Quick knock-out punch. Tied up. Locked door.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:05
  #972 (permalink)  
 
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So we have a European built aircraft operated by a European Company , Flying between two European Countries. The investigation is being carried out by European Agencies yet for some reason Americans tell us almost immediately that there is no terrorist connection and now a Senior American Military official is allegedly leaking information the the NYT about information gleaned from the CVR. Not comfortable with how this is playing out.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:06
  #973 (permalink)  
 
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What I am suggesting is that in airliners that carry pax, the flight deck crew have their own toilet and galley behind the cockpit door. This would result in a few less rows of seats, and will therefore never happen.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:07
  #974 (permalink)  
 
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I thought it would be good idea to post a link to a French TV-station following events minute by minute. For those who understand French.

BFMTV en Direct: regarder la chaine info en live - BFMTV

The debate now on air, is with a French Female Pilot and a retired BEA official.
Thanks.
The plot thickens again...
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:13
  #975 (permalink)  
 
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And if I saw the pilot struggling to return to the cockpit, id certainly be helping him kick that door down.

Surely they must have heard multiple people behind that door after a good 6 or so minutes
No, I doubt you would. I'm not sure I would, if I put myself in the position of the average passenger without the benefit of hindsight:

1) I wouldn't want to be mistaken for a terrorist and risk being attack by cabin crew or other passengers, or shot by a sky marshall.

2) If the pilot wanted the help, he would surely have asked.

3) How would I know that he was the pilot anyway, and not a terrorist with a uniform?

4) What reason would I have to believe that this was going to be anything but an embarrassing incident for the pilot, until it was too late?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:14
  #976 (permalink)  
 
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I would prefer that they didn't have to lock the door in the first place. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the locked door is a critical flight safety issue.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:16
  #977 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
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I'm not an Aviation Professional, but I am an industry expert in things that are also prone to the odd media frenzy over 'disasters'.

It's not just aviation, but there are all sorts of daft theories and so called experts (and people who know a bit, but who's knowledge is not quite current or close enough to the incident) the media are all too willing to report on any of this.

It's also rather easy to spot the journalists on here with their fishing rods!
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:19
  #978 (permalink)  
 
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However, in those rare cases of pilot suicide/mass murder, there's not a single instance of a safe descent leading to CFIT. Why risk eight minutes of possible interference, listening to your co-pilot and ATC when you have control of the cockpit and could get it over with much quicker.

Not that I like any of the other explanations any better, quite frankly.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:23
  #979 (permalink)  
 
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1) The cockpit door keycode is used to call the flight deck to open the door. At that point a pilot would verify the person trying to access the cockpit and only then swictch a switch to "release" the magnetic locks securing the door closed.

2) If the "in cockpit" pilot is unconcious while the other is out of the cockpit, a different code can be entered from the outside with a timer delay which would auto open the door if not permanently locked (using the deadbolt) by the pilot inside the cockpit. (This timer delay is there to allow a number of seconds to pass with the buzzer sounding in the cockpit for the "incapacitated" pilot to open the door using the console switch. Should the incapacitated pilot not open the door then the normal (magnetised) door locks would automatically open after the timer has expired.

3) Should any of the codes be used to try to gain access to the cockpit then, a lock door (spring loaded) switch can be held in the cockpit by a pilot until the "deadbolt" is put on to prevent the entry into the cockpit. To put the deadbolt on and prevent permanent access to the cockpit, a pilot has to get out of his seat normally and "slide/move" the deadbolt across the door preventing any access if the door was tried to be opened.

If the deadbolt was pushed across the door from the inside of the cockpit then, no matter what normal actions someone takes from outside the door, you will not be able to gain access.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:25
  #980 (permalink)  
 
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However, in those rare cases of pilot suicide/mass murder, there's not a single instance of a safe descent leading to CFIT. Why risk eight minutes of possible interference, listening to your co-pilot and ATC when you have control of the cockpit and could get it over with much quicker.
Crash: LAM E190 over Botswana/Namibia on Nov 29th 2013, captain intentionally crashed aircraft
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