Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France
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Of course way too early for any thoughts about the cause, but it reminds me about the incident in November 2014 with an LH A321, which surprisely descended because of a faulty sensors.
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=171411
"During climb, 12 NM NW of Pamplona, at approximately Flight Level 310, the aircraft unexpectedly decreased the pitch autonomous and started to descend. The aircraft reached a rate of descent of up to 4,000 ft/min. The crew was able to stop the descent at Flight Level 270."
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=171411
"During climb, 12 NM NW of Pamplona, at approximately Flight Level 310, the aircraft unexpectedly decreased the pitch autonomous and started to descend. The aircraft reached a rate of descent of up to 4,000 ft/min. The crew was able to stop the descent at Flight Level 270."
Last edited by ChiefT; 24th Mar 2015 at 11:33.
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I know every accident is different, and there is always a risk of confirmation bias in these things, but did anyone else have a similar reaction to me on first hearing the news:
"Another Airbus down?"
Very bad all round
"Another Airbus down?"
Very bad all round
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Weather over Barcelonnette
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there are a lot of them around - these days it's 50-50 if it's an Airbus or a Boeing
What is worrying about this one is that it is in W. Europe operated by a decent company flying in daylight
But let's break the habit of a lifetime & wait for a few more facts
What is worrying about this one is that it is in W. Europe operated by a decent company flying in daylight
But let's break the habit of a lifetime & wait for a few more facts
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I cannot remember the last air crash like this in Western Europe. Can anyone shed light on the last accident like this in Europe?
It just so happens that this aircraft was manufactured by Airbus.
It just so happens the aircraft was flying in Europe at the time the incident.
So what's the point of people saying things like "not another Airbus" or "I cannot remember another crash like this in Europe".
Its far too early to jump to conclusions about manufacturer or geographic location !
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a short distress call at 10.47 and sky news reporting it was made at 6800 feet......
tho take with a pinch of salt as they did just say 24 knots as being full speed
tho take with a pinch of salt as they did just say 24 knots as being full speed
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Marseille control
Aircraft was in the France/Marseille FIR
Marseille ATC issued a called asking some pilots in the vicinity to look around.
A French commercial pilot that was flying a private aircraft at that time explained "France info" radio that he received this call but the region is very mountainous and he could not see anything.
Marseille ATC issued a called asking some pilots in the vicinity to look around.
A French commercial pilot that was flying a private aircraft at that time explained "France info" radio that he received this call but the region is very mountainous and he could not see anything.
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No weather in the area to consider, and doubtful it would have anything to due with frozen angle of attack probes, as the aircraft would have been at cruise altitude for a while.
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Considering there was a mayday I guess there is a chance they already have an idea what happened. I know they have to run an investigation and find the black box etc, but how long usually before they release the content of the distress call?
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Speculations are going to take over the discussion, but among the possibilities
If you want speculation and enumeration of possibilities, go watch the journalists on TV making another hash out of aviation reporting.
Can we please, for once, show some restraint on PPRuNe, and a little bit less of armchair investigators racing to be the first one to name what is later found to be the cause.
Remember, journalists read PPRuNe ... so let's not feed the devil nonsense that they will then regurgitate as "facts" from "reliable sources".
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Considering there was a mayday (...)
- the quote from the DGAC that can easily mean DETRESFA and not Mayday (*)
- the time: loss of ADS-B @ 9:41, Mayday improbable 6 minutes later considering the relief of the region and the previous RoD.
(*) "Le vol s'est déclaré en état de détresse à 10 h 47 locale": suffice to replace by "Le vol a été déclaré en état de détresse à 10 h 47 locale" and you got from Mayday to DETRESFA.
In english, that's the fight declared itself in distress vs the flight was declared in distress [by the ATC services?].
Just been listening to some x USAF General that flew 111's and F16's over the Alps.......where do they get these guys from? They know NOTHING.
What I can see so far:--
1/ no 7700 set
2/ normal elec power before crash
3/ 374 kts ground speed at 6,800'......meaning about 320 KIAS, not unusual
4/ 3,000 fpm descent rate, what you'd expect for 320 Kts with speed brake
This to me appears to be an explosive decompression event that the crew handled initially but somehow later became incapacitated and the Aircraft simply flew into the mountains.
What I can see so far:--
1/ no 7700 set
2/ normal elec power before crash
3/ 374 kts ground speed at 6,800'......meaning about 320 KIAS, not unusual
4/ 3,000 fpm descent rate, what you'd expect for 320 Kts with speed brake
This to me appears to be an explosive decompression event that the crew handled initially but somehow later became incapacitated and the Aircraft simply flew into the mountains.
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UPDATE:
According on live french news channel France24, a DGAC spokesm said there was NO emergency call from the cockpit, they speak about a DETRESFA which means aircraft dissapeared suddenly from radar and lost comunication. The ATC launched the DETRESFA for finding the plane. The place seems difficult accesible only via helicopters. It's also reported that the black boxes are retrieved. The DGAC and France24 talks about a possible lost of control of aircraft.
Waiting for more news...
According on live french news channel France24, a DGAC spokesm said there was NO emergency call from the cockpit, they speak about a DETRESFA which means aircraft dissapeared suddenly from radar and lost comunication. The ATC launched the DETRESFA for finding the plane. The place seems difficult accesible only via helicopters. It's also reported that the black boxes are retrieved. The DGAC and France24 talks about a possible lost of control of aircraft.
Waiting for more news...
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I don't understand why a engine out scenario would be slower? Descents are performed with engines idle. An average of 3,500 fpm seems pretty consistent. If they were using the speed brake as well it might have been more which might suggest they had airframe damage.
Also depressurisation could be a scenario, hypoxia may have prevented them from making fair assessment of the MSA.
All I can say is that I feel very sorry for the people in that situation.
Also depressurisation could be a scenario, hypoxia may have prevented them from making fair assessment of the MSA.
All I can say is that I feel very sorry for the people in that situation.
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Of course way too early for any thoughts about the cause, but it reminds me about the incident in November 2014 with an LH A321, which surprisely descended because of faulty sensors.
ASN Aircraft incident 05-NOV-2014 Airbus A321-231 D-AIDP
"During climb, 12 NM NW of Pamplona, at approximately Flight Level 310, the aircraft unexpectedly decreased the pitch autonomous and started to descend. The aircraft reached a rate of descent of up to 4,000 ft/min. The crew was able to stop the descent at Flight Level 270."
ASN Aircraft incident 05-NOV-2014 Airbus A321-231 D-AIDP
"During climb, 12 NM NW of Pamplona, at approximately Flight Level 310, the aircraft unexpectedly decreased the pitch autonomous and started to descend. The aircraft reached a rate of descent of up to 4,000 ft/min. The crew was able to stop the descent at Flight Level 270."
