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Pilot's Job Threatened For Restricting Extra Lavatory

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Pilot's Job Threatened For Restricting Extra Lavatory

Old 4th Jun 2002, 02:46
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Yes indeed harpy, twenty three thousand hours accumulated in thirty seven years, the last twenty five in command of heavy jet airliners. My perspective is just a little different from many for I look at the passenger as "most important"....some seem to have forgotten this all important fact. Without the passengers, especially the high yield passenger....profits tumble, big time.
You can have all the best trained pilots that money can buy, cabin crew that are the best trained as well...but if the high yield pax are taken for granted, make no mistake, they WILL go elsewhere.
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Old 4th Jun 2002, 03:47
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I enjoy threads with lotsa 411a posts, ‘coz I get through them in half the time of threads of similar length where 411a doesn't grace us with his insightful wisdom. How do I do this? Simple. I gave up reading anything 411a writes a long time ago.

I could only suggest everyone else does the same – ignore his posts… and maybe he’ll get the idea and join the Old Fogeys of Arizona Who Live in Closed Communities Chat Room.



… and I’d just love to hear from one of his ex-FOs or FEs who enjoyed his company at some time during his ‘37 years in Aviation’. It must have been a rare privilege to be treated to his philosophical dissertation on employee/employer relations for eight hours at a stretch.

I know, I know… how did I know he had 37 years experience if I don’t read his post. Sprung! (I restrict myself to the first line.)
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Old 4th Jun 2002, 10:29
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duster,

"do we cede security as one of our concerns as captains? "

What exactly did you hope to achieve by "limiting access" ?

Do you honestly believe that a PA announcement would frighten off any would-be Osama ?





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Old 4th Jun 2002, 19:33
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Thumbs up

Exactly Enuf ! Making a PA that the forward bog (lavatory to the uneducated) is out of bounds is certainly not going to deter your average nutter. I'm sorry Dale, I think that your action illustrates the America of today - way, way, over-the-top. Nevertheless, I certainly don't think that as a result your employment should come under threat. That too would be an OTT reaction by your management.
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Old 4th Jun 2002, 21:05
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I dont see what the fuss is about. I was on an Air 2000 Faro - Dublin recently and the Captains PA was "No pax forward unless a CCM is present." This meant there was a lot of time with the curtain closed.
As others have said it won't deter any bad guys but might it not make any movement in that direction subject to scrutiny from other pax? With possible action?
On the other hand, remember that all the objects used in 9/11 were all legally aboard. Really the only illegal actions that day were the hijackers actions.
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 01:58
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If all and sundry can congregate in the front galley, the nutter(s) can just blend in while waiting for a moment of vulnerability i.e. when the cockpit door is opened.

With a restricted front galley, the presence of uninvited people raises an alert and the door stays shut or is slammed shut before the nutter(s) get(s) to it.

Any time the cockpit is about to be opened, it must be guarded against a surprise attack. Surprise attacks from ten feet away are considerably more likely to be met by a closed door than a surprise attack from nutter(s) within arm's reach.
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 06:04
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411a-
My perspective is just a little different from many for I look at the passenger as "most important"....some seem to have forgotten this all important fact.
Call it a difference in operating tactics, but “most important” in my eyes is; ensure every flight is operated to the best of my (and crew) abilities as safe, secure, smooth and on-time. To achieve this I use the latest in training, tools and personal self-improvement.

With the above criteria met (nothing less should be expected of a proficient commander), you will find that the customer satisfaction will be quite high, and the promotions and bribes put forth by marketing to be frivolous.
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 06:32
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Interesting observation, Ocra strait....but then again, many pilots think that an airline revolves around the flight operations department. They generally forget that the engineering (especially), marketing, tech support, finance,....well, the list goes on...departments also contribute to the success of the enterprise. If all do not work together smoothly, the bottom line is dismal indeed.
Having said that, many airlines have, over the years developed a lot of (for want of a better term) deadwood, and these folks certainly do not contribute to...the bottom line, except in a negative way. Clear that away...and the picture brightens considerably.
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 15:17
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Full marks to this AA Captain for closing off this area. It makes a complete nonsense of all our security precautions, kevlar doors. sliding bolts etc, when for much of the flight there is a queue of people right outside the flight deck door.
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 15:53
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I agree with Rather Be Flying - it's common sense. Under the current arrangements I open the door having checked through a spy hole that no "nutter" is there. However, there's often a queue of pax waiting down the aisle and near the door. When I open the door that's when one of them could rush towards it. It's not a cast iron solution to the problem, and will probably create new problems (already has - workload has increased with all the calls to the cabin, and having to leave the controls to go and open the door to let the CC in).
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 16:16
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If the troublemakers had foreknowledge that the pilots were armed with pistols, they would stay clear of the cockpit.
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 17:28
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And lets not forget the Pax in the front row of seats who can hear the click of the flight deck door opening and rush forward or the Pax with his plastic knife sawing at the flight control runs in the aft toilets, where will it end? You guys sure are getting paranoid.
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Old 5th Jun 2002, 18:08
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We've already seen "where will it end?"

People like Mary Schiavo have been ringing the bell about safety and security for years, Before 9-11, no doubt most people thought she was paranoid, too.

I understand that prisoners from the Afghan conflict being transported to Guantanamo Bay had to be more completely restrained after one detainee tried to chew through exposed wiring in the airplane using his standard-issue Mark I teeth. Perhaps an alterantive to the standard easy-service lift-out toilet assemblies is not such a bad idea.

llater,

llamas
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