JetBlue return, evac
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I suspect that the monotone "Brace Brace" and evident complete lack of any passenger control on the part of the FAs didn't do much to help matters.
The crew were chanting this as passengers started to clap - I started to chuckle while watching it. It completely failed to convey any kind of importance, yet alone urgency or danger, in its delivery.
Who knows what information the pilots were privy to; but it seemed there was very little time in-between the remaining engine being shutdown after the aircraft came to a stop, and the order to evacuate being given. In my mind's eye, I could see the Emergency Evacuation checklist being actioned; after the engine was shutdown, there were the three dings, then the command to evacuate. I could not see evidence of smoke or reduced visibility in the cabin at any point in the video (sure there was haze/smoke in the other video) that showed the start of the evacuation.
Why the unseemly haste?? The only suspicion that comes to mind is that poor information was conveyed to the pilots.
I'd be very embarrassed if I were in the safety/emergency procedures training department of JetBlue. Something very unsatisfactory transpired on this occasion.
But, hell, no one was hurt this time, so it can hopefully be used to fast-track changes in procedure to plug glaring holes in their system before somebody does get hurt.
The crew were chanting this as passengers started to clap - I started to chuckle while watching it. It completely failed to convey any kind of importance, yet alone urgency or danger, in its delivery.
Who knows what information the pilots were privy to; but it seemed there was very little time in-between the remaining engine being shutdown after the aircraft came to a stop, and the order to evacuate being given. In my mind's eye, I could see the Emergency Evacuation checklist being actioned; after the engine was shutdown, there were the three dings, then the command to evacuate. I could not see evidence of smoke or reduced visibility in the cabin at any point in the video (sure there was haze/smoke in the other video) that showed the start of the evacuation.
Why the unseemly haste?? The only suspicion that comes to mind is that poor information was conveyed to the pilots.
I'd be very embarrassed if I were in the safety/emergency procedures training department of JetBlue. Something very unsatisfactory transpired on this occasion.
But, hell, no one was hurt this time, so it can hopefully be used to fast-track changes in procedure to plug glaring holes in their system before somebody does get hurt.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Well it would help if we as passengers in steerage could actually get into a brace position.
The safety card "helpfully" shows a position one is totally unable to get to as the the seat in front of you is a matter of a foot away.
So not surprisingly passengers don't read/pay attention anymore to this rubbish.
The safety card "helpfully" shows a position one is totally unable to get to as the the seat in front of you is a matter of a foot away.
So not surprisingly passengers don't read/pay attention anymore to this rubbish.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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At the end of the day, I am sure that many will agree that, a landing that we can all walk away from, is a good landing. And great work to the crew involved for making such an act happen. No loss of lives + am sure the "injuries" might have been over hyped ie. a buns burnt from sliding down the shoot could count for an injury? (legally that is... might be a lawyers/legal thing)
Not to mention falling bags on heads when opening baggage compartments (which is pretty much a must avoid too, like, using mobile phones to take videos in an emergency!) yeap - it could all count for an injury.... any excuse to make future claims eh? Anyway..
These are trying times for the aviation industry IMHO, and if you would look at what happened from the Satire news site on the MH131 (FAKE) case, we can see how the public just got it wrong, even when there really was nothing wrong.
Many have already spoken on why oxygen masks don't automatically deploy and how it's merely for rapid decompression etc so won't touch on it, but yes, will most definitely want to review the actions to help improve my own CRM knowledge -- esp the coordination between the flight deck, the cabin, the controller, the company and the customers! Believe there might have been a break in the chain somewhere but, was not there, don't have the data, so can't comment. What we read in books is one thing, having the variables from real-life stories, make it even more dynamic for learning + self improvement.
Am pretty much interested to know why the 2nd engine failed and/or caught fire too! Also, the crew's actions leading up to it. Leaving out the whole pandemonium inside the cabin aside. That, we can leave to the media to get ratings.
Not to mention falling bags on heads when opening baggage compartments (which is pretty much a must avoid too, like, using mobile phones to take videos in an emergency!) yeap - it could all count for an injury.... any excuse to make future claims eh? Anyway..
These are trying times for the aviation industry IMHO, and if you would look at what happened from the Satire news site on the MH131 (FAKE) case, we can see how the public just got it wrong, even when there really was nothing wrong.
Many have already spoken on why oxygen masks don't automatically deploy and how it's merely for rapid decompression etc so won't touch on it, but yes, will most definitely want to review the actions to help improve my own CRM knowledge -- esp the coordination between the flight deck, the cabin, the controller, the company and the customers! Believe there might have been a break in the chain somewhere but, was not there, don't have the data, so can't comment. What we read in books is one thing, having the variables from real-life stories, make it even more dynamic for learning + self improvement.
Am pretty much interested to know why the 2nd engine failed and/or caught fire too! Also, the crew's actions leading up to it. Leaving out the whole pandemonium inside the cabin aside. That, we can leave to the media to get ratings.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Here's the classic 'I hoid a bang and I knew we wuz gonna die' tabloid style news item on the incident from CNN:
JetBlue passengers endure scary emergency landing - CNN.com
I'm very hesitant to second guess the crew given the good result of the safe return and evac. These days any decision you make will be criticized by the geniuses on the ground here and elsewhere.
Fortunately, the only place I've ever made the evac call is in the simulator.
JetBlue passengers endure scary emergency landing - CNN.com
I'm very hesitant to second guess the crew given the good result of the safe return and evac. These days any decision you make will be criticized by the geniuses on the ground here and elsewhere.
Fortunately, the only place I've ever made the evac call is in the simulator.
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Oh, you know what he means, Dave.
One thing I am curious about: Are US carriers prohibited from unlocking the cockpit door when they have an emergency?
That door is a true CRM killer. Direct communication could have stopped them from evacuating the aircraft.
Unlock is on top of my to do list when something serious happens.
One thing I am curious about: Are US carriers prohibited from unlocking the cockpit door when they have an emergency?
That door is a true CRM killer. Direct communication could have stopped them from evacuating the aircraft.
Unlock is on top of my to do list when something serious happens.
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"YOU CAN HEAR BABIES CRYING"
Hardly indicative of an emergency, I've heard babies crying on any flight where babies were being transported.
Hardly indicative of an emergency, I've heard babies crying on any flight where babies were being transported.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I'd rather Brace
I am no expert, but what if the engine suffered an partially contained failure, with shrapnel that may latently affect AC control ? Engine failures are so rare, I 'd rather brace unnecessarily than wear a spinal "brace" for the rest of my life .....
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oxygen masks
Again, I am no aviation expert, but I think in this situation, deployment of the masks is not a bad thing ( except from an economic viewpoint).
Firstly, with such thick smoke, there is considerable risk of passenger panic, with its safety impact. Many people associate oxygen with something that helps the body to survive. In this sense the presence of these masks can help allay anxiety.
Secondly, with such amount of smoke, there is a chance that some passengers with lung diseases such as asthma may get bronchospasm (tightening of the respiratory airways). In this situation, the extra oxygen may actually be of medical help.
Firstly, with such thick smoke, there is considerable risk of passenger panic, with its safety impact. Many people associate oxygen with something that helps the body to survive. In this sense the presence of these masks can help allay anxiety.
Secondly, with such amount of smoke, there is a chance that some passengers with lung diseases such as asthma may get bronchospasm (tightening of the respiratory airways). In this situation, the extra oxygen may actually be of medical help.
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No, the oxygen mask does not supply pure oxygen, they mix O2 with ambient air. So you tell the passengers to suck polluted air while they think they are breathing clean air.
They will be much better off breathing through some clothing/fabric. There is a reason why passenger oxygen masks are not in the smoke check list. I can't be bothered to look it up, but I believe Boeing advices AGAINST dropping the masks when you have smoke.
They will be much better off breathing through some clothing/fabric. There is a reason why passenger oxygen masks are not in the smoke check list. I can't be bothered to look it up, but I believe Boeing advices AGAINST dropping the masks when you have smoke.
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On two occasions had to decide between an emergency evacuation and continuing to gate. One I used all the slides, positive sabotage threat, and the other was smoke throughout the aircraft and we deplaned at gate.
Every situation is different but keeping the FA's in the loop is very important. Our airline procedure would be to not activate passenger oxygen masks. We didn't use brace for either because landing was not the problem.
On the first emergency I asked for push up stairs twice, once with dispatch and once with ops to avoid using the slides but they never arrived so had to make a last minute change with FA's to a full evacuation with slides.
It was a full B737 and as a new captain was relieved no one was injured.
Every situation is different but keeping the FA's in the loop is very important. Our airline procedure would be to not activate passenger oxygen masks. We didn't use brace for either because landing was not the problem.
On the first emergency I asked for push up stairs twice, once with dispatch and once with ops to avoid using the slides but they never arrived so had to make a last minute change with FA's to a full evacuation with slides.
It was a full B737 and as a new captain was relieved no one was injured.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Correct, ManaAdaSystem, and the cabin crew cannot deploy the passenger's oxygen masks, that's only possible from the flight deck. Unless these masks fell down by a technical glitch or heavy shock/vibration, there were more serious mistakes from the flight crew.
the cabin crew cannot deploy the passenger's oxygen masks, that's only possible from the flight deck
Cabin crew cannot initiate a mass deployment, but they can deploy as many individual seat rows' masks as they have the time and patience to do.
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Passengers said they saw crew manually deploying masks.
This accident becomes to a true show off for imcompetency...
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I am a pilot and have voiced my views.
I do offer the concept that smoke rises and putting your face near the floor might provide slightly better air to breathe, whether on a plane or in a hotel room.
I do hope a firefighter will add to this thought.
This does prove something though! Its better to be lucky, than good!
I do offer the concept that smoke rises and putting your face near the floor might provide slightly better air to breathe, whether on a plane or in a hotel room.
I do hope a firefighter will add to this thought.
This does prove something though! Its better to be lucky, than good!
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C Duct is the name of the reverse cowls. It seems that the panel in the photo is the one that cover the c-ducts latches, below engine. Must problably blowed out as a result of explosion.
(In this video, the one showed opened at 3:17
)
Oxygen masks deploy automatically when airplane is above 10,000 feet more or less. So for them to be deployed so low, pilots should use a dedicated switch which deploys them no matter how highh the plane is.
Deploying the mask, pilots must probable avoided pass affected by smoke. It was a very good decison.
(In this video, the one showed opened at 3:17
Oxygen masks deploy automatically when airplane is above 10,000 feet more or less. So for them to be deployed so low, pilots should use a dedicated switch which deploys them no matter how highh the plane is.
Deploying the mask, pilots must probable avoided pass affected by smoke. It was a very good decison.