Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Tel Aviv

Old 25th Jul 2014, 10:04
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
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"I am surprised at these airlines not flying.." Placed in a context where a minute concentration of volcanic ash grounds all flights, how can you be surprised, espada, at airlines making the call when there are lethal missiles flying?
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Old 25th Jul 2014, 11:25
  #42 (permalink)  
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Missiles were again fired in the direction of TLV this morning.
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 00:19
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Egremont, MA, USA
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I think they are more worried about Iron Dome responses than about the Hamas missiles...
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 16:15
  #44 (permalink)  
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HAMAS has attempted to acquire longer range radar guided missiles. As pointed out the IAF destroyed a inbound shipment not that long ago. Anyone sure that Israel has stopped every single one?
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 18:14
  #45 (permalink)  
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Location: FL, USA
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One would think that the lifespan of a SAM radar site in Gaza or the West Bank would be very, very short once it started emitting it's electronic search energy beam.
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 22:54
  #46 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,060
In a situation like the current Tel Aviv one it will be the insurance market that will be calling the shots. The insurers can do a number of things, the two most likely are to 1). Suspend all insurance for aircraft flying into Tel Aviv, or, (and more likely in this case), 2). Charge an additional premium for each and every flight. It may be worth the extra for some airlines and not for others. Airlines that lease their aircraft may have to comply with the instructions of the leasing company too.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 21:03
  #47 (permalink)  
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Out of interest, what life cover do your companies give you to operate into these places? I just came back from there yesterday and I wonder if we are selling our souls too cheap!
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Old 30th Jul 2014, 17:42
  #48 (permalink)  
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Basil / Parabellum
You are correct about insurance as my father in law was ex ins aviation broker and he has made similar comments to yourselves.
Also the tanker issue is correct, although the real "hot" time was during the Iran /Iraq war with war crews being put on to bring the tankers up to the top of the Gulf. A lot of money made by small number of crew, but a few ships and men were lost, and many strafed. I was out there at the time and it was interesting talking to the crews, and their views of certain allied Navy,s which were out there at the time.

Last edited by Mr Mac; 30th Jul 2014 at 21:56.
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Old 2nd Aug 2014, 23:04
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Safe Enough But Not Prepared To Fly There

I operated into TLV recently and we were held off about 50 miles whilst missiles shot down a rocket near the airfield. We were then vectored in from the North & departed in a similar direction keeping us away from all the action in the South West. My only reservation was the use of landing lights which made us an easier target in the air, and a concern having just refuelled about what we might do with the passengers if the airfield received a "3 minute warning" of incoming rockets. Other than that it was safe enough and I'd have no real safety concerns about operating into there. HOWEVER .....

... With the world up in arms and threatening sanctions against Russia for apparently supplying missiles to Ukrainian separatists for killing 298 civilians on MH17, there seems to be an eerie silence over the killing of some 1200+ civilians in Gaza. Many of these are reported as women and children with UN schools and hospitals being hit.

Sorry, but to me this seems a disproportionate response to 3(?) Israelis killed in rocket attacks.

Our military forces had to deal with people hiding weapons next to schools & hospitals in the Gulf war .... We lived with the frustration and didn't go bombing them irrespectively.

So although I have no real safety concerns operating into there, I do have a moral concern. I don't wish to condone this sort of action, so have declined to operate any further flights there until this stops.

It won't make any difference but makes me feel that I can show my disapproval in a peaceful way by withdrawing my professional services and refusing to operate into Tel Aviv for the time being.
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Old 3rd Aug 2014, 00:27
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Eerie silence? What eerie silence?
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Old 3rd Aug 2014, 16:44
  #51 (permalink)  
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What I find disturbing is that the Iron Dome system can not be infallible (no system is 100% reliable) and as such it only needs one errant missile and then whatever excuses Israel gives it would be in the same position as those that shot down MH17
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Old 4th Aug 2014, 06:33
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 75
I think the USA has just approved another $250M to improve the Iron Dome system.

We should strive to make it 100% reliable.

And then give exactly the same system to the Palestinians.
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Old 8th Aug 2014, 19:33
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Buenos Aires
Posts: 98
The Iron Dome wouldn't be much use to them as the Israelis are not firing ground launched rockets at them which can't be aimed accurately at anything smaller than a city
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Old 21st Aug 2014, 10:43
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hotels
Posts: 348
Business as usual everybody?

Hamas warned airlines to stay away on Thursday morning. It said it had fired a rocket towards Ben Gurion, but an Israeliairportspokesman said there were no disruptions reported to Thursday’s flight schedules
CY?s night flight to Israel not deterred by Hamas airport threat | Cyprus Mail
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Old 22nd Aug 2014, 02:03
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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So from one perspective we can't let terrorists/freedom figthers (depending on how you look at it) win, and want to keep air traffic flowing.

From another, MH17, they should have stayed out of "the war zone", or been routed around it.

In my opinion those two regions are in the same mess, and I have a feeling both Ukraine and Israel, from a political standpoint, don't like the idea of having terrorists/freedom figthers win by shutting down the airspace.

Now the question is, do we really want to see another aircraft shot down, carrying innocent victims (even though people travelling to Israel may know the risk) Simply because a gonverment want to make a political statement?

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Old 22nd Aug 2014, 09:19
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Guys, for those of you who have been there recently, what is the runway in use for landing and take off in TLV?
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Old 22nd Aug 2014, 10:39
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
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21 for arrival & 08 for departure
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Old 23rd Aug 2014, 00:50
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Exclamation Hamas warns int'l airlines from heading to TLV - 20 Aug 2014: Hamas warns int'l airlines from heading to Israel's Ben Gurion Airport

Last edited by heavy.airbourne; 23rd Aug 2014 at 00:52. Reason: added source and date
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