Tel Aviv
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicago, IL, US
Age: 73
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Both the number and range of rockets used against Israel has increased compared to prior cycles of violence (or whatever better neutral term you would prefer). Iron Dome isn't perfect and even hitting a single U.S. flagged aircraft, loaded with fuel and passengers, no matter the death toll, simply isn't worth the risk. To make matters worse, how about an Iron Dome missile that hits a plane, for whatever reason, or caused part of an inbound rocket to hit a plane, etc.
The political games that would be played after even a near-miss, both within the U.S. and internationally, should be obvious.
The political games that would be played after even a near-miss, both within the U.S. and internationally, should be obvious.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicago, IL, US
Age: 73
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't think Israel will be too bothered, El Al stand to make a fortune.
The Israel Airport Authority said the U.S. companies made the decisions on their own, and it urged them to reconsider, saying the airport was safe. "There is no reason that American carriers should stop flying to Israel and thus give a prize to terror," it said.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
parabellum:
Not exactly. There are tours that have been scheduled for months. This is the "inexpensive" season because of the weather.
El Al cannot recover all the tour groups that are now not coming.
That hurts a lot of businesses in Israel.
A couple, who are friends here in California, just returned on Tuesday from a 10 day tour of Israel. Everything was "a okay" so far as they were concerned. The last night their hotel in Tel Aviv posted casual door signs on their rooms, "If you hear sirens, proceed to the secure area."
Lovely.
Don't think Israel will be too bothered, El Al stand to make a fortune.
El Al cannot recover all the tour groups that are now not coming.
That hurts a lot of businesses in Israel.
A couple, who are friends here in California, just returned on Tuesday from a 10 day tour of Israel. Everything was "a okay" so far as they were concerned. The last night their hotel in Tel Aviv posted casual door signs on their rooms, "If you hear sirens, proceed to the secure area."
Lovely.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Duncraig, Oz
Age: 57
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know where Hamas could even find medium-range SAM but Assad, as much as he doesn't like Hamas, would like to take down several israeli planes so he could have proliferated them a SAM or two, nothing is impossible today.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems after MH17 airlines and the traveling public are much more aware of the risk posed by war zones. And Israel around Gaza is currently a war zone in the opinion of may observers. In Germany Lufthansa halted all TLV flights for 24 hours, Air Berlin did for 36 hours, however for the latter one flights to TLV haven't been mandatory duties for the last few weeks and many crews decided not to risk it and therefore didn't do those rotations, management pilots therefore got a whole lot of first hand experience flying into Ben Gurion.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know where Hamas could even find medium-range SAM but Assad
Hamas don't have to do anything now. You bet they will be contacted by all sorts of low life scum(even from the so called first world) out to make a fast buck . Look around the world . Even the frigging somalian pirates are armed to the teeth with deadly weapons nowadays. Who sells/gives it to them ?
"What's the difference between Tel Aviv and Donetsk? They are both in war zones."
russian rebels possess(ed) medium-range SAM(s), huge difference
flights to TLV are out of reach of Hamas MANPADs, in theory the plane could get hit from Hamas rocket or even Iron Dome but in theory it could get hit by a meteorite too
"Remember Israeli airliners have counter measures against missiles, as demonstrated by Arkia in Mombassa in 2002."
yupp, but those are not guaranteed to work every time
russian rebels possess(ed) medium-range SAM(s), huge difference
flights to TLV are out of reach of Hamas MANPADs, in theory the plane could get hit from Hamas rocket or even Iron Dome but in theory it could get hit by a meteorite too
"Remember Israeli airliners have counter measures against missiles, as demonstrated by Arkia in Mombassa in 2002."
yupp, but those are not guaranteed to work every time
Any time that you have uncontrolled (and uncontrollable) objects entering controlled airspace is a good time to perform a stringent risk analysis. The FAA appears to have done that.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: glendale
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HI.
The El Al missile defense system would not provide defense against an unguided rocket that just happens to hit a plane on the ground (or in the air for that matter). El Al missile defense is against infrared guided missiles.
The Hammas Rockets are unguided and just pointed in a direction and they land where they land and boom. They might hit the airport or an airplane or they might hit a delicatessen or a movie theatre.
I do understand that the IRON DOME system costs 20,000 dollars per intercept. IRON DOME works against artillery or unguided rockets. TO MY KNOWLEDGE it would not stop a MANPAD.
The El Al missile defense system would not provide defense against an unguided rocket that just happens to hit a plane on the ground (or in the air for that matter). El Al missile defense is against infrared guided missiles.
The Hammas Rockets are unguided and just pointed in a direction and they land where they land and boom. They might hit the airport or an airplane or they might hit a delicatessen or a movie theatre.
I do understand that the IRON DOME system costs 20,000 dollars per intercept. IRON DOME works against artillery or unguided rockets. TO MY KNOWLEDGE it would not stop a MANPAD.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Potomac Heights
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAA lifts ban on TLV flights
Press Release ? FAA Statement?FAA Lifts Flight Restrictions for Ben Gurion International Airport
July 23, 2014
The FAA has lifted its restrictions on U.S. airline flights into and out of Israel’s Ben Gurion Airport by cancelling a Notice to Airmen it renewed earlier today. The cancellation is effective at approximately 11:45 p.m. EDT.
Before making this decision, the FAA worked with its U.S. government counterparts to assess the security situation in Israel and carefully reviewed both significant new information and measures the Government of Israel is taking to mitigate potential risks to civil aviation.
The FAA’s primary mission and interest are the protection of people traveling on U.S. airlines. The agency will continue to closely monitor the very fluid situation around Ben Gurion Airport and will take additional actions, as necessary.
The FAA initially instituted the flight prohibition on Tuesday, July 22, in response to a rocket strike that landed approximately one mile from the airport.
The FAA has lifted its restrictions on U.S. airline flights into and out of Israel’s Ben Gurion Airport by cancelling a Notice to Airmen it renewed earlier today. The cancellation is effective at approximately 11:45 p.m. EDT.
Before making this decision, the FAA worked with its U.S. government counterparts to assess the security situation in Israel and carefully reviewed both significant new information and measures the Government of Israel is taking to mitigate potential risks to civil aviation.
The FAA’s primary mission and interest are the protection of people traveling on U.S. airlines. The agency will continue to closely monitor the very fluid situation around Ben Gurion Airport and will take additional actions, as necessary.
The FAA initially instituted the flight prohibition on Tuesday, July 22, in response to a rocket strike that landed approximately one mile from the airport.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sho' nuff -
@BuzzFeedNews: .@Delta, @united, @USAirways say they're resuming flights to Tel Aviv, Israel, after 2-day halt U.S. ends ban on flights to Israel - CNN.com
@BuzzFeedNews: .@Delta, @united, @USAirways say they're resuming flights to Tel Aviv, Israel, after 2-day halt U.S. ends ban on flights to Israel - CNN.com
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Haifa
Age: 69
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Danger from missiles
Realistically, the danger is negligible. The rockets being fired at TLV are without warheads (removed to get the range), so they would have to directly hit a plane on approach or on the ground to do any damage. So far only one rocket fragment has made it as far as 1.6km from the airport (that is what triggered the FAA announcement, since rescinded).
However crews may still be uncomfortable. Nevertheless, all the major scheduled airlines except LH and TK are flying to BGN again now.
However crews may still be uncomfortable. Nevertheless, all the major scheduled airlines except LH and TK are flying to BGN again now.
I am surprised at these airlines not flying. TK may have political rather than safety issues to contend with, but LH and its subsidiaries are a major presence at TLV so would assume they would start up again when EASA removed the ban.