Swanwick problems...
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Netherlands, Germany, Austria, USA, Thailand, Japan...the list goes on.....
Computers that break, too few controllers...just some of the reasons why the UK is not at the top of the list. Near the top...yes...at the top, certainly not.
Computers that break, too few controllers...just some of the reasons why the UK is not at the top of the list. Near the top...yes...at the top, certainly not.
.......and, 5 years late, coming in November will be Maastricht's new super sophisticated but highly complex system. It will be a joy to work with, but its complexity may generate plenty of teething problems.
Join Date: May 1999
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Respect! for all the ATCO's and ATCA's who helped us through Friday's failures.
But, if there are not questions in the 'House' over this last failure then I don't know what it takes. Honestly, I find it incredulous, that we have yet another system failure of this magnitude. Combined with the Brussels failure it amounted to one of the worst days I've expereinced, we had to cancel 44 sectors.
But translate this into human misery, missed holidays, frustration and all that goes with it, add the cost to the airlines - it is simply unacceptable and NATS management had best listen up and sort themselves out. I frankly feel they have NO excuse.
Who is going to carry the can over this one?
But, if there are not questions in the 'House' over this last failure then I don't know what it takes. Honestly, I find it incredulous, that we have yet another system failure of this magnitude. Combined with the Brussels failure it amounted to one of the worst days I've expereinced, we had to cancel 44 sectors.
But translate this into human misery, missed holidays, frustration and all that goes with it, add the cost to the airlines - it is simply unacceptable and NATS management had best listen up and sort themselves out. I frankly feel they have NO excuse.
Who is going to carry the can over this one?
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Hmmm, seem to remember somewhere else on this august forum that LHR leads Europe in delays on departure...personally have ALWAYS held the longest on arrival into LHR.
If ATC at Heathrow is the "best", I wonder why?
If ATC at Heathrow is the "best", I wonder why?
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411A,
Well, you seem to have the answer for most things around here, so if you can tell us how to better squeeze a quart into a pint pot we'd be very pleased to hear from you
Why not drop me an e-mail the next time you're over and you can come in and see the operation first hand and let us know where we're going wrong.
WF.
p.s that is a genuine offer to visit us.
Hmmm, seem to remember somewhere else on this august forum that LHR leads Europe in delays on departure...personally have ALWAYS held the longest on arrival into LHR.
Why not drop me an e-mail the next time you're over and you can come in and see the operation first hand and let us know where we're going wrong.
WF.
p.s that is a genuine offer to visit us.
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If ATC at Heathrow is the "best", I wonder why?
411A,
I suggest if you compare the number of runways available at LHR compared with say LFPG,EHAM,KDFW,KATL,KORD to name a few you will find your answer!
411A,
I suggest if you compare the number of runways available at LHR compared with say LFPG,EHAM,KDFW,KATL,KORD to name a few you will find your answer!
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Fly747...
ATCO's...yes, in that case would agree, altho I personally prefer AMS controllers...just a personal choice.
Warped Factor...
Would be pleased to come 'round for a look...and pleased to buy the beers after. Could very well be next month as we are planning sim training in the UK.
ATCO's...yes, in that case would agree, altho I personally prefer AMS controllers...just a personal choice.
Warped Factor...
Would be pleased to come 'round for a look...and pleased to buy the beers after. Could very well be next month as we are planning sim training in the UK.
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I was one of probably millions of people inconvinienced by the NATS problem.
What I want to know is who is accountable for all the disruption and expense incurred by everyone involved.
If it was as a result of a direct failure on NATS's part, do they get off the hook without having to compensate airlines, passengers and all others involved?
Seems that if its their fault, they should be accountable.
What I want to know is who is accountable for all the disruption and expense incurred by everyone involved.
If it was as a result of a direct failure on NATS's part, do they get off the hook without having to compensate airlines, passengers and all others involved?
Seems that if its their fault, they should be accountable.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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At the risk of attracting much derision...
I used to work in financial markets. If I had to staff a dealing room, the first place I would head would be to a busy ATC unit and offer you real money. You guys are fantastic - thanks for the great job you do. much as I detest industrial action, here's an idea: in Australia several years ago, the ATCOs had a series of rolling stoppages for better pay & conditions - after some >>good PR<< to let the punters know that the guys & gals directing them through the maze worked silly shifts for peanuts, the punters got on-side and the pressure for decent pay became political. Do it, guys - you deserve it.
I used to work in financial markets. If I had to staff a dealing room, the first place I would head would be to a busy ATC unit and offer you real money. You guys are fantastic - thanks for the great job you do. much as I detest industrial action, here's an idea: in Australia several years ago, the ATCOs had a series of rolling stoppages for better pay & conditions - after some >>good PR<< to let the punters know that the guys & gals directing them through the maze worked silly shifts for peanuts, the punters got on-side and the pressure for decent pay became political. Do it, guys - you deserve it.
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The difference is financial people take RISKS as part of the job, as an ATCO my job is all about SAFETY and the avoidance of RISK.
Still, wouldn't mind some of your paycheck (wouldn't we all though?)
Best rgds BEX
Still, wouldn't mind some of your paycheck (wouldn't we all though?)
Best rgds BEX
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Agreed BEX...
My point is simply that some people with what appear to be similar skills - quick thinking, keeping within bounds, ability to know where things are in relation to each other (eg. the prices of different instruments, the historical track of each of those instruments) and keep a cool head under pressure) - often get paid more than ATCOs who use their similar skills to prevent a/c from running into each other - and that you guys are a bargain at the price the community pays for your talents.
My post was simply to try to say, 'those of us who have even an inkling of what you do, really appreciate you'.
My point is simply that some people with what appear to be similar skills - quick thinking, keeping within bounds, ability to know where things are in relation to each other (eg. the prices of different instruments, the historical track of each of those instruments) and keep a cool head under pressure) - often get paid more than ATCOs who use their similar skills to prevent a/c from running into each other - and that you guys are a bargain at the price the community pays for your talents.
My post was simply to try to say, 'those of us who have even an inkling of what you do, really appreciate you'.
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I've been watching this (and the other thread in ATC) with interest. I got a bit caught up as PAX in Friday's stuff.
As a technical architect and PPL, I find the ATC stuff, and the systems that are used, fascinating but mysterious! My contact with the profession and it's services is limited to the odd ATCO or FISO at local airfields.
Is there any opportunity to come and have a look-see at what you guys do somewhere sometime? Or alternatively, is there any kind of general easy to read book about ATC ops?
As a technical architect and PPL, I find the ATC stuff, and the systems that are used, fascinating but mysterious! My contact with the profession and it's services is limited to the odd ATCO or FISO at local airfields.
Is there any opportunity to come and have a look-see at what you guys do somewhere sometime? Or alternatively, is there any kind of general easy to read book about ATC ops?
Join Date: May 2002
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Here's one for yer...
Checked in at LHR 0800 on friday - Chaos!
Eventually went out, prepped up a/c - cancelled
Back to compass.
Did this another 3 times, each time returning to compass at company's request.
Final occasion had a/c, crew, catering, fuel, tug and 150 pax - cx!
Eventually checked out at 2100 having been precisely nowhere!
Talk about not being able to organise a **** up in a brewery!
Checked in at LHR 0800 on friday - Chaos!
Eventually went out, prepped up a/c - cancelled
Back to compass.
Did this another 3 times, each time returning to compass at company's request.
Final occasion had a/c, crew, catering, fuel, tug and 150 pax - cx!
Eventually checked out at 2100 having been precisely nowhere!
Talk about not being able to organise a **** up in a brewery!
Controversial, moi?
Born sinner
I can understand your frustration but had you witnessed what was happening in operations all day and night Friday and much of Saturday I would challenge you to do much better.
I was on the telephone to our schedulers at 0300 on Saturday morning calculating the earliest we could operate back to UK. You could hear the activity in the background.
I think you are being uncharitable.
I can understand your frustration but had you witnessed what was happening in operations all day and night Friday and much of Saturday I would challenge you to do much better.
I was on the telephone to our schedulers at 0300 on Saturday morning calculating the earliest we could operate back to UK. You could hear the activity in the background.
I think you are being uncharitable.
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taildragger67,
You're right, we had an application from an ATC in one of our asian branches in the 80's, decided to give him a try after some market training. He developed into an excellent trader, great ability to absorb constantly changing market info and to act on it.
Bexil,
You are quite right; in the financial markets you are generally measuring and pricing risk, not eliminating it. Dealing requires excellent self-discipline, which the zero defect environment of aviation inculcates.
The guy that I mentioned took quite a while to get used to the fact that it was expected that he, like any other trader, would make bad- in hindsight- trading decisions. The hallmark of the good trader is the speed with which he or she cuts the lossmaking positions, and runs the winners. Incidentally, if you follow this thinking, you can often make an overall profit even if the majority of your decisions are wrong
You're right, we had an application from an ATC in one of our asian branches in the 80's, decided to give him a try after some market training. He developed into an excellent trader, great ability to absorb constantly changing market info and to act on it.
Bexil,
You are quite right; in the financial markets you are generally measuring and pricing risk, not eliminating it. Dealing requires excellent self-discipline, which the zero defect environment of aviation inculcates.
The guy that I mentioned took quite a while to get used to the fact that it was expected that he, like any other trader, would make bad- in hindsight- trading decisions. The hallmark of the good trader is the speed with which he or she cuts the lossmaking positions, and runs the winners. Incidentally, if you follow this thinking, you can often make an overall profit even if the majority of your decisions are wrong