Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The crew are innocent until proven otherwise. Everything said so far is speculation.
Of course we very rarely hear of the times The Crew have saved an aircraft, which i am sure i far more common occurrence.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paso Robles
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why not? If Echo has been able to do scan of a particular area and it is showing clear signs of the wreckage, ...
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MovingTarget
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LH2000,
the "Helderberg" was indeed found with sonar, but the sonar was being towed near the ocean bottom at the end of a 9,000 meter long cable.
HMS Echo has a multibeam echosounder and a sidescan sonar, but I don't know if they can get that equipment down deep. At the very least, they'll want to map the ocean floor...a pre-requisite before sending any AUV down.
the "Helderberg" was indeed found with sonar, but the sonar was being towed near the ocean bottom at the end of a 9,000 meter long cable.
HMS Echo has a multibeam echosounder and a sidescan sonar, but I don't know if they can get that equipment down deep. At the very least, they'll want to map the ocean floor...a pre-requisite before sending any AUV down.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 3rd rock
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's true, but the cold hard reality it that "The Crew" have been implicated in accidents significantly more often than not whether wholly or partially at fault.
Of course we very rarely hear of the times The Crew have saved an aircraft, which i am sure i far more common occurrence.
Of course we very rarely hear of the times The Crew have saved an aircraft, which i am sure i far more common occurrence.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: brisbane
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rampstalker
You say that "unless it can be proved 150% that the crew were involved! they cannot be blamed"
What is your point of view about Silk Air in 1997, or Egypt Air in 1999. Do you think a crew member is 150% proved culpable in those accidents?
The burden of proof in a criminal conviction is "beyond reasonable doubt", and damages can be awarded in a civil case " on the balance of probability"
How do you explain MH370 changing heading and altitude several times, without human input? From my understanding there is no way MH370 carried out the manoeuvres it did without intelligent human intervention. If the supposition that the alleged cascading defects so overwhelmed the crew, it is almost unthinkable that NO radio calls were made. Think back to JAL 747 rear bulkhead rupture, the crew were nearly overwhelmed by the cascading defects and were making copious RT calls, the aircraft eventually became unflyable, despite the crews heroic efforts. QF A380 had an enormous workload of cascading defects, but were making many RT calls, the aircraft was severely crippled, but survived.
The assertion that the crew of MH370 had a series if cascading defects, but said nothing, but continued to make intelligent, apparently deliberate MCP inputs, is quite frankly inconsistent with logical preservation of life.
I'm afraid that the Malaysian authorities state the facts when they say that the disappearance of MH370 was a criminal act. The mystery is by whom. But I can state definitively it was not done by a novice aviator.
It will be interesting when the CVR and FDR are recovered as to whether or not they were de-powered ala Silk Air.
What is your point of view about Silk Air in 1997, or Egypt Air in 1999. Do you think a crew member is 150% proved culpable in those accidents?
The burden of proof in a criminal conviction is "beyond reasonable doubt", and damages can be awarded in a civil case " on the balance of probability"
How do you explain MH370 changing heading and altitude several times, without human input? From my understanding there is no way MH370 carried out the manoeuvres it did without intelligent human intervention. If the supposition that the alleged cascading defects so overwhelmed the crew, it is almost unthinkable that NO radio calls were made. Think back to JAL 747 rear bulkhead rupture, the crew were nearly overwhelmed by the cascading defects and were making copious RT calls, the aircraft eventually became unflyable, despite the crews heroic efforts. QF A380 had an enormous workload of cascading defects, but were making many RT calls, the aircraft was severely crippled, but survived.
The assertion that the crew of MH370 had a series if cascading defects, but said nothing, but continued to make intelligent, apparently deliberate MCP inputs, is quite frankly inconsistent with logical preservation of life.
I'm afraid that the Malaysian authorities state the facts when they say that the disappearance of MH370 was a criminal act. The mystery is by whom. But I can state definitively it was not done by a novice aviator.
It will be interesting when the CVR and FDR are recovered as to whether or not they were de-powered ala Silk Air.
Last edited by gazumped; 11th Apr 2014 at 05:42.
Does anyone know if the optic fibre repeaters on the underwater submarine cable SEA-ME-WE3, which runs from Perth through the search area to Jakarta, emit any noise? They are powered by internal DC power. Could they be causing interference?
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 3rd rock
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rampstalker,
I find elements of your post to be very unfortunate (to put it mildly).
May I remind you that it is the lead investigators (ie. Malaysia) who have inferred that there is an ongoing criminal investigation. "Deliberate act" and "criminal act" are but some of the characterizations which they have used.
I find elements of your post to be very unfortunate (to put it mildly).
May I remind you that it is the lead investigators (ie. Malaysia) who have inferred that there is an ongoing criminal investigation. "Deliberate act" and "criminal act" are but some of the characterizations which they have used.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 72
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fact is that it's far cheaper to blame crew,
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a LAME, i just accept that no one thanks me for ensuring the aircraft i inspect and repair are safe to fly. Certainly I'd say its very rare for a pilot to say hey man thanks to keeping our aircraft safe to fly, your the best.
If can be honest i get plenty of groans and moans when i fix an aircraft faster than the crew expected while they watch their duty hours tick by hoping it runs out before the aircraft is fixed.
While speculation is just that, after an accident or incident speculation is rife, and the first thing to be assumed is that something has gone wrong with the aircraft. Some lazy tech has done a dodgy repair.
So by asserting that the crew has done nothing wrong asserts that someone else has.
The basis of all modern aircraft designs is that no single failure should cause an aircraft to crash. Multiple compounding failures are incredibly rare.
So to me its swings and round abouts.
If can be honest i get plenty of groans and moans when i fix an aircraft faster than the crew expected while they watch their duty hours tick by hoping it runs out before the aircraft is fixed.
While speculation is just that, after an accident or incident speculation is rife, and the first thing to be assumed is that something has gone wrong with the aircraft. Some lazy tech has done a dodgy repair.
So by asserting that the crew has done nothing wrong asserts that someone else has.
The basis of all modern aircraft designs is that no single failure should cause an aircraft to crash. Multiple compounding failures are incredibly rare.
So to me its swings and round abouts.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Alaska
Age: 74
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the land of pings
Do the Malaysian authorities read the experts on this commentary. So now the airplane is placed near the entrance of the Malacca Straits at 5000 feet before it goes off radar. Now not a southbound turn right over Indonesian radar has to be accounted for, but also a climb to conserve fuel to get to the land of pings. How do these dots connect?
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: This planet
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rampstalker I agree on what you just wrote below. I have seen many times that posts from those accepted with ease and many of us still keep trying and putting efforts to express our ideas here.
I see very little support for the crews on here from other flight crews. Or is it because they are not English/Oz/American.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: in a suitcase
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced his Government was “very confident” that missing flight MH370’s black box recorder had been located.
But his statement seemed to be at odds with a statement released just minutes afterwards by the head of the MH370 search team, Air Chief Marshall Angus Houston.
But his statement seemed to be at odds with a statement released just minutes afterwards by the head of the MH370 search team, Air Chief Marshall Angus Houston.
Government sources told news.com.au they were confident the Prime Minister’s remarks were factual.
It is understood search teams will not announce the discovery of the black box until the flight recorder has been sighted.
Mr Abbott is also due to meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping for a state dinner in Beijing tonight. He said that he would hold back on announcing more information until he had briefed the president, out of respect for the many Chinese families who had relatives on board the flight.
It is understood search teams will not announce the discovery of the black box until the flight recorder has been sighted.
Mr Abbott is also due to meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping for a state dinner in Beijing tonight. He said that he would hold back on announcing more information until he had briefed the president, out of respect for the many Chinese families who had relatives on board the flight.
AND
“I look forward to providing President Xi with the latest update when I meet him in Beijing this afternoon. We are confident that we know the position of the black box flight recorder to within about a kilometre.
Last edited by orbitjet; 11th Apr 2014 at 07:01.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 55
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best thing Abbot did was to appoint Angus Houston and he should now shut up and let him give out the facts as he has been doing, calmly, clearly and unambiguously.
I never heard of Angus Houston before this tragedy, but I am very impressed. His leadership has been a tonic, bringing order to an investigation which has seen far too much rancour, accusations and misinformation.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I never heard of Angus Houston before this tragedy, but I am very impressed. His leadership has been a tonic, bringing order to an investigation which has seen far too much rancour, accusations and misinformation."
Which is why he ended up head of the Armed Forces is Aus. He has publicly and vocally stared down politicians in the past at a lower rank and still made it to the top job. He is also a decorated SAR pilot so knows what he is talking about.
Which is why he ended up head of the Armed Forces is Aus. He has publicly and vocally stared down politicians in the past at a lower rank and still made it to the top job. He is also a decorated SAR pilot so knows what he is talking about.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: in a suitcase
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You do understand that marine traffic is not getting constant coverage as its dropping in an out of VHF aIs coverage.
Unless you are using the satellite feed that costs $299 a month or a free trial, but then again I don't think the sat feed is live.
As i look at HMS ECHO it shows last info received was 3 hours ago.
Unless you are using the satellite feed that costs $299 a month or a free trial, but then again I don't think the sat feed is live.
As i look at HMS ECHO it shows last info received was 3 hours ago.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago, IL (ORD) USA
Age: 77
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martyynemh
I agree with your analyse entirely.
I will try to reproduce a redacted version of a previously deleted post.
At FIR/ATC changeover point somehow ACARS and ATC transponder and VHF fail to respond.
Just because VHF coms or transponder elicit no response does not mean they have failed; ......
If you don't answer the radio doesn't mean the radio is dead.
If you turn the transponder to STBY doesn't mean it has failed
If ACARS is deselected from VHF programing .........? and you don't subscribe to satcom ?
Who is operating the airplane?
I will try to reproduce a redacted version of a previously deleted post.
At FIR/ATC changeover point somehow ACARS and ATC transponder and VHF fail to respond.
Just because VHF coms or transponder elicit no response does not mean they have failed; ......
If you don't answer the radio doesn't mean the radio is dead.
If you turn the transponder to STBY doesn't mean it has failed
If ACARS is deselected from VHF programing .........? and you don't subscribe to satcom ?
Who is operating the airplane?
Last edited by MotCap; 11th Apr 2014 at 07:30. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re the ships in the two search areas.
The Chinese ships seem to be still searching the western search area.
I see the two supply ships are now together and a big oil tanker on the way
to the search area, heading for the supply ships.
The Chinese ships seem to be still searching the western search area.
I see the two supply ships are now together and a big oil tanker on the way
to the search area, heading for the supply ships.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 80
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The aircraft or parts would be secured using robots and strops.
The aircraft would be hoisted slowly off the bottom and additional strops put in place. Further slow hoisting would take place until deep divers could reach it and check strops and add additional support as necessary. I would not expect them to enter at this stage as any failure could trap them . . .
Once near the surface they may attach buoyancy chambers and slowly inflate until slight negative buoyancy is achieved. Further raising and inflation until the aircraft is virtually on the surface.
They might enter at this point however that might also cause parts to break off and be lost.
The size of the aircraft would probably dictate provision of a barge and probably removal of wings and tail while still suspended on the water.