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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:07
  #9721 (permalink)  
 
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Why not? If Echo has been able to do scan of a particular area and it is showing clear signs of the wreckage, ...
Why not? Because there is no way to associate 100% a particular scan with a wreckage, at the best you get a something that may look like a wreckage. You still have to get down there to verify. Plus to get a reliable scan they have to lower the submersible and we know they haven't been doing it.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:07
  #9722 (permalink)  
 
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LH2000,
the "Helderberg" was indeed found with sonar, but the sonar was being towed near the ocean bottom at the end of a 9,000 meter long cable.


HMS Echo has a multibeam echosounder and a sidescan sonar, but I don't know if they can get that equipment down deep. At the very least, they'll want to map the ocean floor...a pre-requisite before sending any AUV down.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:24
  #9723 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LH2000 View Post
That's true, but the cold hard reality it that "The Crew" have been implicated in accidents significantly more often than not whether wholly or partially at fault.

Of course we very rarely hear of the times The Crew have saved an aircraft, which i am sure i far more common occurrence.
If I may speculate too then, this could well be an exception to your analysis. It may in fact be one of the rarely heard occasion where the crew did their best beyond anyone's expectations as in JAL123. So lets extend the same courtesy that we would give a heroic crew until proven otherwise. Until then its all speculation and nothing else. fair dinkum!
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:30
  #9724 (permalink)  
 
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Rampstalker

You say that "unless it can be proved 150% that the crew were involved! they cannot be blamed"

What is your point of view about Silk Air in 1997, or Egypt Air in 1999. Do you think a crew member is 150% proved culpable in those accidents?

The burden of proof in a criminal conviction is "beyond reasonable doubt", and damages can be awarded in a civil case " on the balance of probability"

How do you explain MH370 changing heading and altitude several times, without human input? From my understanding there is no way MH370 carried out the manoeuvres it did without intelligent human intervention. If the supposition that the alleged cascading defects so overwhelmed the crew, it is almost unthinkable that NO radio calls were made. Think back to JAL 747 rear bulkhead rupture, the crew were nearly overwhelmed by the cascading defects and were making copious RT calls, the aircraft eventually became unflyable, despite the crews heroic efforts. QF A380 had an enormous workload of cascading defects, but were making many RT calls, the aircraft was severely crippled, but survived.

The assertion that the crew of MH370 had a series if cascading defects, but said nothing, but continued to make intelligent, apparently deliberate MCP inputs, is quite frankly inconsistent with logical preservation of life.

I'm afraid that the Malaysian authorities state the facts when they say that the disappearance of MH370 was a criminal act. The mystery is by whom. But I can state definitively it was not done by a novice aviator.

It will be interesting when the CVR and FDR are recovered as to whether or not they were de-powered ala Silk Air.

Last edited by gazumped; 11th Apr 2014 at 06:42.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:34
  #9725 (permalink)  
 
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Here's a composite image I've pieced together from various sources for tracks of Ocean Shield and Echo.

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Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:46
  #9726 (permalink)  
GBO
 
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Does anyone know if the optic fibre repeaters on the underwater submarine cable SEA-ME-WE3, which runs from Perth through the search area to Jakarta, emit any noise? They are powered by internal DC power. Could they be causing interference?
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:52
  #9727 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Northern Hawk View Post
Rampstalker,
I find elements of your post to be very unfortunate (to put it mildly).
May I remind you that it is the lead investigators (ie. Malaysia) who have inferred that there is an ongoing criminal investigation. "Deliberate act" and "criminal act" are but some of the characterizations which they have used.
Fact is that it's far cheaper to blame crew, far more (exponentially) expensive to blame Boeing or MAS any other entity. But this whole argument about who is to blame is a useless waste of time until there is proof. The 239 souls got into MH370 as they were deemed innocent. They should be so until there is proof to say otherwise. In the mean time no amount of speculation makes any difference.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 06:56
  #9728 (permalink)  
 
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Fact is that it's far cheaper to blame crew,
No, the reverse is true, it is far cheaper to blame aircraft manufacturer, airline, there are lawsuits already pending, small army of lawyers already on standby, they only wait for news that wreckage was found. Nobody can make a buck by blaming the crew...
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 07:12
  #9729 (permalink)  
 
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As a LAME, i just accept that no one thanks me for ensuring the aircraft i inspect and repair are safe to fly. Certainly I'd say its very rare for a pilot to say hey man thanks to keeping our aircraft safe to fly, your the best.

If can be honest i get plenty of groans and moans when i fix an aircraft faster than the crew expected while they watch their duty hours tick by hoping it runs out before the aircraft is fixed.

While speculation is just that, after an accident or incident speculation is rife, and the first thing to be assumed is that something has gone wrong with the aircraft. Some lazy tech has done a dodgy repair.
So by asserting that the crew has done nothing wrong asserts that someone else has.

The basis of all modern aircraft designs is that no single failure should cause an aircraft to crash. Multiple compounding failures are incredibly rare.

So to me its swings and round abouts.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 07:17
  #9730 (permalink)  
 
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To the land of pings

Do the Malaysian authorities read the experts on this commentary. So now the airplane is placed near the entrance of the Malacca Straits at 5000 feet before it goes off radar. Now not a southbound turn right over Indonesian radar has to be accounted for, but also a climb to conserve fuel to get to the land of pings. How do these dots connect?
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 07:27
  #9731 (permalink)  
 
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rampstalker I agree on what you just wrote below. I have seen many times that posts from those accepted with ease and many of us still keep trying and putting efforts to express our ideas here.
I see very little support for the crews on here from other flight crews. Or is it because they are not English/Oz/American.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 07:48
  #9732 (permalink)  
 
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Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced his Government was “very confident” that missing flight MH370’s black box recorder had been located.

But his statement seemed to be at odds with a statement released just minutes afterwards by the head of the MH370 search team, Air Chief Marshall Angus Houston.
AND

Government sources told news.com.au they were confident the Prime Minister’s remarks were factual.

It is understood search teams will not announce the discovery of the black box until the flight recorder has been sighted.

Mr Abbott is also due to meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping for a state dinner in Beijing tonight. He said that he would hold back on announcing more information until he had briefed the president, out of respect for the many Chinese families who had relatives on board the flight.
No Cookies | Perth Now

AND

“I look forward to providing President Xi with the latest update when I meet him in Beijing this afternoon. We are confident that we know the position of the black box flight recorder to within about a kilometre.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/unc...-1226880483186

Last edited by orbitjet; 11th Apr 2014 at 08:01.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 07:53
  #9733 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by equal View Post
I wonder if the PM's announcement was just PR for the sake of his China visit?
More than likely.
The best thing Abbot did was to appoint Angus Houston and he should now shut up and let him give out the facts as he has been doing, calmly, clearly and unambiguously.

I never heard of Angus Houston before this tragedy, but I am very impressed. His leadership has been a tonic, bringing order to an investigation which has seen far too much rancour, accusations and misinformation.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 07:56
  #9734 (permalink)  
 
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"I never heard of Angus Houston before this tragedy, but I am very impressed. His leadership has been a tonic, bringing order to an investigation which has seen far too much rancour, accusations and misinformation."


Which is why he ended up head of the Armed Forces is Aus. He has publicly and vocally stared down politicians in the past at a lower rank and still made it to the top job. He is also a decorated SAR pilot so knows what he is talking about.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 08:21
  #9735 (permalink)  
 
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So marinetraffic has HMS Echo motoring straight into the search box and stopping at -21.0061 104.0151. Status is stopped in vessel details box.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 08:25
  #9736 (permalink)  
 
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You do understand that marine traffic is not getting constant coverage as its dropping in an out of VHF aIs coverage.

Unless you are using the satellite feed that costs $299 a month or a free trial, but then again I don't think the sat feed is live.

As i look at HMS ECHO it shows last info received was 3 hours ago.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 08:26
  #9737 (permalink)  
 
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Martyynemh

I agree with your analyse entirely.

I will try to reproduce a redacted version of a previously deleted post.

At FIR/ATC changeover point somehow ACARS and ATC transponder and VHF fail to respond.

Just because VHF coms or transponder elicit no response does not mean they have failed; ......
If you don't answer the radio doesn't mean the radio is dead.
If you turn the transponder to STBY doesn't mean it has failed
If ACARS is deselected from VHF programing .........? and you don't subscribe to satcom ?


Who is operating the airplane?

Last edited by MotCap; 11th Apr 2014 at 08:30. Reason: spelling
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 08:28
  #9738 (permalink)  
 
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Re the ships in the two search areas.


The Chinese ships seem to be still searching the western search area.


I see the two supply ships are now together and a big oil tanker on the way
to the search area, heading for the supply ships.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 08:31
  #9739 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Innaflap View Post
If the airframe is still intact I wonder if they will attempt to raise it to a depth where divers can get in?
I don't see an answer yet so this is my best guess:

The aircraft or parts would be secured using robots and strops.

The aircraft would be hoisted slowly off the bottom and additional strops put in place. Further slow hoisting would take place until deep divers could reach it and check strops and add additional support as necessary. I would not expect them to enter at this stage as any failure could trap them . . .

Once near the surface they may attach buoyancy chambers and slowly inflate until slight negative buoyancy is achieved. Further raising and inflation until the aircraft is virtually on the surface.

They might enter at this point however that might also cause parts to break off and be lost.

The size of the aircraft would probably dictate provision of a barge and probably removal of wings and tail while still suspended on the water.
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Old 11th Apr 2014, 08:31
  #9740 (permalink)  
 
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@orbitjet

Status is stopped in vessel details box.
Yes I understand the free feed is several hours old but the status as of 3 hours ago was 'stopped' NOT 'underway'.

Another interesting tidbit
HMS Echo, Tireless Work Round the Clock to Find Malaysian Airliner MH370 >> Naval Today

HMS Echo’s hi-tech sonar has been specially adapted so it can pick up any transmissions on the black box’s frequency – this is the first time Echo’s sonar has been used this way and so far it has located several possible contacts – but sadly none of them proved to be from MH370’s black box.

ie from the Haixun01 contacts a couple of days ago
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