Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: YARM
Age: 69
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Sikpilot
Let google search for the plane while they map the earths oceans.
But seriously, Google commented last year that the resolution they employ for scanning the deep ocean floor is insufficient to identify shipwrecks. One assumes that would likewise apply to airframe wreckage
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Siargao Island
Posts: 956
Offer a billion dollar reward on a "no win, no fee" basis, that should even have people out in rowing boats with metal detectors trying to find the thing.
Seriously though, it's all very well having these search vessels out there but they get paid regardless if they find the thing or not thus it is likely that they may merely go through the motions ... Try offering a (very big) incentive for finding the thing whilst allowing them their own discretion of which area of ocean they believe it may be in.
Seriously though, it's all very well having these search vessels out there but they get paid regardless if they find the thing or not thus it is likely that they may merely go through the motions ... Try offering a (very big) incentive for finding the thing whilst allowing them their own discretion of which area of ocean they believe it may be in.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,204
That's a fairly strong allegation to make against the crews and owners of the search vessels - do you have any evidence to back up the suggestion that they were "just going through the motions"?
FWIW my own view is that the wreckage is probably "undiscoverable" by virtue of being either in a steep valley on the sea bed or (more probably) under a few dozen feet of seabed ooze. This means that if it's *ever* discovered it will be either by accident or due to the development of a massively different and more powerful searching technology. We're looking for obbjects a few dozen feet across in several gazillion square miles of ocean bed using technologies that need to be within a few tens of feet of an object to see it. Do the maths - the probability of finding it by random searching is not zero, but it is damned *close* to zero.
€0.03 supplied,
PDR
FWIW my own view is that the wreckage is probably "undiscoverable" by virtue of being either in a steep valley on the sea bed or (more probably) under a few dozen feet of seabed ooze. This means that if it's *ever* discovered it will be either by accident or due to the development of a massively different and more powerful searching technology. We're looking for obbjects a few dozen feet across in several gazillion square miles of ocean bed using technologies that need to be within a few tens of feet of an object to see it. Do the maths - the probability of finding it by random searching is not zero, but it is damned *close* to zero.
€0.03 supplied,
PDR
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 945
Once the ships have gone home, there will still be people reviewing stored sensor data for quite some time. The "search" will never really be "over" until the mystery is solved. Could some new clue be residing in existing data that will inspire a further sub-sea search? Or will some emergent sensor technology locate it in the future? Certainly possible, however unlikely it may appear at the moment.
The effort and resources put forth in the search effort since it went missing is nothing short of astounding in my view. It's sad that such an effort has not successfully located the remains to date. But that's how it stands and people will have to live with it until such time that more is known. That may or may not ever happen. Only time will tell. That's little comfort to victims families, but sometimes best efforts fail to achieve the desired result.
Time to get on with it.
The effort and resources put forth in the search effort since it went missing is nothing short of astounding in my view. It's sad that such an effort has not successfully located the remains to date. But that's how it stands and people will have to live with it until such time that more is known. That may or may not ever happen. Only time will tell. That's little comfort to victims families, but sometimes best efforts fail to achieve the desired result.
Time to get on with it.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hants
Posts: 21
What is the global aviation industry doing to enable real time tracking of all aircraft, with no override, so we don't lose another one? As SLF, I find it incredible that this is beyond their technical ability. If it's political, someone need to get off their behind and make a stand.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 90
The great unwashed do not care that much. If anyone is going to "make a stand" it would need to be passengers, by voting with their backsides. No airline is going to run an advertising campaign with "Fly with us, we are fully tracked, no override, so when our nut job pilot flies you into a remote ocean, you relatives will be able to locate the wreckage" ... admittedly the running costs would be close to zero (in airplane terms) but there is no real reason to do it. Find MH370 would have been interesting to the industry to find out why the loon at the controls did what he did, but that's about all. As others have said, the technology for realtime upload of CVR data exists, that would be interesting too, but that isn't going to happen either.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here & there
Posts: 743
What is the global aviation industry doing to enable real time tracking of all aircraft, with no override, so we don't lose another one? As SLF, I find it incredible that this is beyond their technical ability. If it's political, someone need to get off their behind and make a stand.
http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/BMW%20201...02016%20v2.pdf
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by Harry Wayfarers
... Seriously though, it's all very well having these search vessels out there but they get paid regardless if they find the thing or not thus it is likely that they may merely go through the motions ... Try offering a (very big) incentive for finding the thing whilst allowing them their own discretion of which area of ocean they believe it may be in.
Responding to those who describe this as a complete waste of the money:
Of course, the Australians will likely find uses for that data. If the search is ever to be continued, a huge section of seabed has been eliminated. So it's not a complete waste.
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by PeetD
What is the global aviation industry doing to enable real time tracking of all aircraft, with no override, so we don't lose another one? As SLF, I find it incredible that this is beyond their technical ability. If it's political, someone need to get off their behind and make a stand.
This weekends SpaceX launch put 10 upgraded Iridium satellites into orbit.
Global tracking based on the Iridiums is already offered by blueskynetwork.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 35
Posts: 73
It's interesting no-one has found the Varig 707 or Faucett 727 which crashed in the 70s & 90s. Both of those much, much closer to land than MH370 likely is.
It's a pity they didn't take the northern search area more seriously though given where the washed up debris was.
It's a pity they didn't take the northern search area more seriously though given where the washed up debris was.
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 142
One of the key presumptions in concluding that the crash site was in the 7th arc was that the aircraft continued on a straight autopilot course.
That presumption is now called into serious question. On the other hand, the debris found to date indicates that the collision with the sea was in uncontrolled flight.
One thing I noticed right away with the ping data is that those pings are consistent with a straight path - but far from perfectly consistent. And, of course, they are also consistent with many other paths.
That presumption is now called into serious question. On the other hand, the debris found to date indicates that the collision with the sea was in uncontrolled flight.
One thing I noticed right away with the ping data is that those pings are consistent with a straight path - but far from perfectly consistent. And, of course, they are also consistent with many other paths.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 70
Posts: 1,806
There was a recent article that stated that it was likely that Boeing would take up the MH370 search when the ATSB gave up. I have seen no confirmation from anyone in authority (or Boeing) that this would be the case.
Boeing rumored to take up MH370 search
I cannot understand why Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and David Mearns were not enticed into the search for MH370.
After all, Mearns found the "unfindable" 1941 shipwreck of HMAS Sydney, in 2008, around 130 miles SW of Carnarvon - and WHOI played a substantial part in helping to locate AF447.
The wreck of HMAS Sydney was found at a depth exceeding 8000 feet, and it was found within a relatively short time after Mearns commenced his search. However, Mearns did have the benefit of warship contact records and a relatively small search area.
Boeing rumored to take up MH370 search
I cannot understand why Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and David Mearns were not enticed into the search for MH370.
After all, Mearns found the "unfindable" 1941 shipwreck of HMAS Sydney, in 2008, around 130 miles SW of Carnarvon - and WHOI played a substantial part in helping to locate AF447.
The wreck of HMAS Sydney was found at a depth exceeding 8000 feet, and it was found within a relatively short time after Mearns commenced his search. However, Mearns did have the benefit of warship contact records and a relatively small search area.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,895
Originally Posted by .Scott
One of the key presumptions in concluding that the crash site was in the 7th arc was that the aircraft continued on a straight autopilot course.
That presumption is now called into serious question. On the other hand, the debris found to date indicates that the collision with the sea was in uncontrolled flight.
That presumption is now called into serious question. On the other hand, the debris found to date indicates that the collision with the sea was in uncontrolled flight.
Once the engines quit, the question of whether or not the aircraft was flying on autopilot up to that point becomes academic.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 335
What I did not understand (from early on) and still do not understand is what appears to be a 'single' line of reasoning and search.
A number of alternative approaches and scenario's have been proposed. At least one of those scenario's suggested a very limited search area and was presented to the ATSB and Malaysian investigations. An area in the southern Indian Ocean proposed at a time when the official search was still combing the Andaman to Perth route. As far as I know that limited scenario is still possible with the old and new drift analysis and the various confirmed finds.
Why a search for 2 years over a huge area without even talking about or checking such relatively easy check&reject alternatives.
These Fugro guys and others on board have been operating in pretty risky environment for a long time. I only have admiration for them.
A number of alternative approaches and scenario's have been proposed. At least one of those scenario's suggested a very limited search area and was presented to the ATSB and Malaysian investigations. An area in the southern Indian Ocean proposed at a time when the official search was still combing the Andaman to Perth route. As far as I know that limited scenario is still possible with the old and new drift analysis and the various confirmed finds.
Why a search for 2 years over a huge area without even talking about or checking such relatively easy check&reject alternatives.
These Fugro guys and others on board have been operating in pretty risky environment for a long time. I only have admiration for them.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
Age: 73
Posts: 2,055
Quote from .Scott:
"...the debris found to date indicates that the collision with the sea was in uncontrolled flight."
Quote from DaveReidUK:
"Once the engines quit, the question of whether or not the aircraft was flying on autopilot up to that point becomes academic."
I would go further than Dave. Any suggestion of a qualified and current B777 pilot setting the aircraft down in one piece in the Southern Indian Ocean, even if all systems were available, and the aircraft subsequently sinking intact would also lack credibility. As previously commented, this was not the River Hudson. There would be debris, regardless of the circumstances of the impact, and some pieces would float better and for longer than others.
Following the discovery of a piece of flaperon on the island of Reunion, the subsequent arrival of debris on the eastern coasts of Africa and/or Madagascar was predicted on the MH370 thread. The problem was how to locate and identify the larger pieces before they were put to good use by those residing on those shores.
"...the debris found to date indicates that the collision with the sea was in uncontrolled flight."
Quote from DaveReidUK:
"Once the engines quit, the question of whether or not the aircraft was flying on autopilot up to that point becomes academic."
I would go further than Dave. Any suggestion of a qualified and current B777 pilot setting the aircraft down in one piece in the Southern Indian Ocean, even if all systems were available, and the aircraft subsequently sinking intact would also lack credibility. As previously commented, this was not the River Hudson. There would be debris, regardless of the circumstances of the impact, and some pieces would float better and for longer than others.
Following the discovery of a piece of flaperon on the island of Reunion, the subsequent arrival of debris on the eastern coasts of Africa and/or Madagascar was predicted on the MH370 thread. The problem was how to locate and identify the larger pieces before they were put to good use by those residing on those shores.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 17th Jan 2017 at 17:14. Reason: 2nd para extended. Indian added.
