RAF Boys - Easy Life !
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Can we include why BA is/isn't the best airline in the world into this thread?
Then we can really be immature and pathetic with the thread quickly degenerating into a puerile slanging match.
For what it's worth I take people as I find them and don't find that the RAF has a monopoly on egotists or idiots.
Tell you what though I am jealous that I didn't get to fly some of the military hardware!
Then we can really be immature and pathetic with the thread quickly degenerating into a puerile slanging match.
For what it's worth I take people as I find them and don't find that the RAF has a monopoly on egotists or idiots.
Tell you what though I am jealous that I didn't get to fly some of the military hardware!
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I know of some technical groundschool instructors with literally thousands of hours of simulator/fixed base simulator experience, and the CAA grants them no slack or exemptions on the ATPL Tech subjects....yet they teach the aircrews on conversion courses......crazy, or what?
And as for Parker Time, well, that is totally shabby.
Tailwinds
And as for Parker Time, well, that is totally shabby.
Tailwinds
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Pontius - intrigued to know quite why you think an A2 QFI category is 'great for a free ticket from the CAA'? Yes - once there was a route for military QFIs to Civil FI with little pain save a (then) 1179, FI test and ATPL-level Air Law; however, most QFIs were too lazy to bother and this route was stopped. Rather a shame - I did it and have enjoyed instructing/examining in my spare time ever since. Interestingly, most airline recruiting 'insiders' have told me that evidence of FW instructing ability is
a definite plus; a definite minus is thinking that the world owes you a living because you used to be the ace of the base on FJ, RW or anything else. Calm, safe ex co-pilots are less of a problem to them than some other ex-mil pilots. Particularly those who drone on about 'cap badges', 'crabs', 'fish heads' or other such pointless division.
Incidentally, it was a lawyer who advised me that 'age alone' may no longer be used as a discriminator - ability is the sole criterion. I've no interest in flying odious lager-louts to Oybeetha myself, so my comments are not specific to any future aspirations I may or may not have.
PS - it wasn't 'total time' I was quoting, merely 4-jet command time.
[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 18 April 2001).]
a definite plus; a definite minus is thinking that the world owes you a living because you used to be the ace of the base on FJ, RW or anything else. Calm, safe ex co-pilots are less of a problem to them than some other ex-mil pilots. Particularly those who drone on about 'cap badges', 'crabs', 'fish heads' or other such pointless division.
Incidentally, it was a lawyer who advised me that 'age alone' may no longer be used as a discriminator - ability is the sole criterion. I've no interest in flying odious lager-louts to Oybeetha myself, so my comments are not specific to any future aspirations I may or may not have.
PS - it wasn't 'total time' I was quoting, merely 4-jet command time.
[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 18 April 2001).]
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LostinBRU,
Check facts? You may find you are talking to the proverbial 'horses mouth'
Never mind. Always another time.
MAXIMOL,
Of course, but they don't have the advantage of being 'An Officer and a gentleman' to smooth the interview process.
HA!
Say no more!!!!
BEagle,
When you refer to QFI do you mean MIL or Civvy?
AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!
(the last bit was a joke)
(in fact, all of it was a joke)
(who cares?)
Check facts? You may find you are talking to the proverbial 'horses mouth'
Never mind. Always another time.
MAXIMOL,
Of course, but they don't have the advantage of being 'An Officer and a gentleman' to smooth the interview process.
HA!
Say no more!!!!
BEagle,
When you refer to QFI do you mean MIL or Civvy?
AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!
(the last bit was a joke)
(in fact, all of it was a joke)
(who cares?)
Guest
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BEagle,
Well, you learn something new every day. I really didn't know the CAA had closed down the Mil QFI to CAA FI qual. I did it quite some time ago, but have to admit I have never used it.
Your comments regarding the negatives of 'WIWOFJs' etc is very valid, but the QFI bit honestly doesn't count for much for the less 'military' airlines. As an eg; if you were to go to 2 Bob they would have a very good idea of what you're talking about and the relevence of your quals. Go to BA and I think 99% of the time you'd end up with some puzzled looks from the interviewers.
Anyway, I'm sure we've bashed this to death already. I say good luck to all those who are still 'in' and I hope you get as many concessions as poss.
Pontius
PS: ohhh, 4500 hrs....I thought you were talking actual
------------------
You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!
Well, you learn something new every day. I really didn't know the CAA had closed down the Mil QFI to CAA FI qual. I did it quite some time ago, but have to admit I have never used it.
Your comments regarding the negatives of 'WIWOFJs' etc is very valid, but the QFI bit honestly doesn't count for much for the less 'military' airlines. As an eg; if you were to go to 2 Bob they would have a very good idea of what you're talking about and the relevence of your quals. Go to BA and I think 99% of the time you'd end up with some puzzled looks from the interviewers.
Anyway, I'm sure we've bashed this to death already. I say good luck to all those who are still 'in' and I hope you get as many concessions as poss.
Pontius
PS: ohhh, 4500 hrs....I thought you were talking actual
------------------
You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!
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nice to see exemptions back again...i did it the long winded way before leaving Her Majesties employment....reckon that a free issue of an ATPL on retirement would be fair. all this bitching and whinging is purely a hangover form the masses who got chopped at biggin hill (or cranwell for the 70's children)
Hoorah.
Hoorah.
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Well that certainly livened things up didn't it - well done chaps. Best post yet from Genghis - good advice to all ex military types, there are plenty out there who are indeed excellent folk, it's a pity that some more outspoken ones, usually with Squadron Breitlings spoil it. Here - that could be the start of another thread - what deal did you get on your Squadron watch ?
'edited for typo'
[This message has been edited by extra (edited 19 April 2001).]
'edited for typo'
[This message has been edited by extra (edited 19 April 2001).]
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Great news. I'm pleased it'll be easier now for the white glove brigade to transfer their over-inflated egos into the real world. Excellent. Also I think Her Majestys pen pushers should do a course on how to go straight into management/training and try to get
1. increase cra
2. more fairness inblind lines
3. "enhanced seniority because of their very relevant experience and the fact they've served Queen and Country" (Lord Flash).
Also I think any ex mil pilot who's had to fork out anything themselves in the last 25 years should have it paid back by the taxpayer.
NN
1. increase cra
2. more fairness inblind lines
3. "enhanced seniority because of their very relevant experience and the fact they've served Queen and Country" (Lord Flash).
Also I think any ex mil pilot who's had to fork out anything themselves in the last 25 years should have it paid back by the taxpayer.
NN
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You know NN, that's the first sensible post I think you've ever contributed to this forum and agree wholeheartedly with all of the points you raised. (Between you and me though, I think there may be some folk out there that may object to us getting "freebie" management opportunities, but you never know....it's worth a try. Perhaps no-one will notice) 
Oh....wait a mo: it was just you being sarcastic! Well - my sides have just split...you are a wag Nigel! You rarely fail to disappoint, do you? I bet the flight deck is in stitches when you're there - how those long hours must simply fly by!!!
Can't wait for you to post again!!
Oh....wait a mo: it was just you being sarcastic! Well - my sides have just split...you are a wag Nigel! You rarely fail to disappoint, do you? I bet the flight deck is in stitches when you're there - how those long hours must simply fly by!!!
Can't wait for you to post again!!
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Abnormal Niggle seems to have sado-masochistic tendencies as he obviously enjoys the bruising replies which all his posts seem to receive!
Perhaps he only posts when his favourite cabin-boy has left the whip and gag at home??
However, I do agree that, unlike our old heaps, most normal airliners have sufficiently good air conditioning to avoid the need for sweat-resistant cape leather gloves!!
Perhaps he only posts when his favourite cabin-boy has left the whip and gag at home??
However, I do agree that, unlike our old heaps, most normal airliners have sufficiently good air conditioning to avoid the need for sweat-resistant cape leather gloves!!
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FWIW,
I can't knock any mil (or ex-mil) for being recognised in one way or another for their experience. If there are cheaper ways to gain an ATPL or whatever then why knock people for taking advantage of it? We would all do it, given the opportunity.
Plenty of us 'self-improvers' have their own 'war' stories to tell about how difficult it's been both financially and career-wise to get to where we are. But frankly - who cares? Equally the ex-mils may feel that they have had a tough time getting their licences (which they may feel they should be given.) Again, who cares?
The fact is, it doesn't matter how you get your licences and/or experience. At the end of the day an ATPL doesn't take into account whether your hours are FJ or trucking. The licence is identical and grants the same priveleges. (OK, the caveat is parker penning your hours - but you know what I mean!)
Again FWIW, if we have to tar people, (let's face it, it IS fun!) The only ex-mil guy I've had nearly kill me was an Army guy, (ex-intelligence, with 'ex' being the word). And, using my Big Brush now; the consistently worst landings I have to experience have been the senior nigels who pick the flight I'm on to do their one handling sector a month!
On a brighter note, I can honestly say that whether ex-mil or not, the vast majority of guys I have the pleasure of flying with leave their egos at home and are great company down-route. There are no aces in long-haul.
OK, one last thing. In an earlier posting someone gave the ex-mils a bit of advice about wearing their gloves on the flight deck. I would just like to add to that and point out that - It is even sillier to wear white leather gloves on the flight deck when you have never been near the military! I've seen it happen and boy did he look a C**t.
Right, that's it for now - bid's open, got to plan next months golf tour!
ATB,
Underdog
I can't knock any mil (or ex-mil) for being recognised in one way or another for their experience. If there are cheaper ways to gain an ATPL or whatever then why knock people for taking advantage of it? We would all do it, given the opportunity.
Plenty of us 'self-improvers' have their own 'war' stories to tell about how difficult it's been both financially and career-wise to get to where we are. But frankly - who cares? Equally the ex-mils may feel that they have had a tough time getting their licences (which they may feel they should be given.) Again, who cares?
The fact is, it doesn't matter how you get your licences and/or experience. At the end of the day an ATPL doesn't take into account whether your hours are FJ or trucking. The licence is identical and grants the same priveleges. (OK, the caveat is parker penning your hours - but you know what I mean!)
Again FWIW, if we have to tar people, (let's face it, it IS fun!) The only ex-mil guy I've had nearly kill me was an Army guy, (ex-intelligence, with 'ex' being the word). And, using my Big Brush now; the consistently worst landings I have to experience have been the senior nigels who pick the flight I'm on to do their one handling sector a month!
On a brighter note, I can honestly say that whether ex-mil or not, the vast majority of guys I have the pleasure of flying with leave their egos at home and are great company down-route. There are no aces in long-haul.
OK, one last thing. In an earlier posting someone gave the ex-mils a bit of advice about wearing their gloves on the flight deck. I would just like to add to that and point out that - It is even sillier to wear white leather gloves on the flight deck when you have never been near the military! I've seen it happen and boy did he look a C**t.
Right, that's it for now - bid's open, got to plan next months golf tour!
ATB,
Underdog
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Unless you are physiologically abnormal and do not experience sweating palms, keep the gloves. Nothing worst than handling the throttles after a hot, clammy hand has left drying perspiration all over them. And they do look a wee bit more kosher than a pair of red 'Arnold Palmer long-drives'. G-pants might be a little OTT though.
High time the mil guys got due recognition for their training and experience. Just remember chaps, it is a different world here in civvie aviation land - not difficult, just different.
DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING UNTIL IT HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY DENIED
High time the mil guys got due recognition for their training and experience. Just remember chaps, it is a different world here in civvie aviation land - not difficult, just different.
DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING UNTIL IT HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY DENIED
Guest
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Well spoken that man!
If Nigel and his friends think that being a mil' pilot is an easy way to an ATPL, perhaps he should try and get through the selection tests, and subsequent line training. It would be interesting to see how they get on.
As well as attaining and keeping the standards required, mil' pilots are doing essentially the same job as civi's, the exception being that instead of carrying pax and cargo and keeping the plane in one piece, some of them are required to carry out the other duties most of us are glad to leave to them.
I'm not ex -mil', but apart from mandatory CRM courses and other fine tuning exercises, Idont see a problem with ex -mil' pilots getting dispensations for the civvie pilots licence.
Flying is perhaps the only mil' trade that has direct parallels with the civi' world, and I think that by the time a mil' pilot has reached the standards required of the ATPL, AND got the experience required for civi' flight deck positions, they will have more than paid back the training costs.
If Nigel and his friends think that being a mil' pilot is an easy way to an ATPL, perhaps he should try and get through the selection tests, and subsequent line training. It would be interesting to see how they get on.
As well as attaining and keeping the standards required, mil' pilots are doing essentially the same job as civi's, the exception being that instead of carrying pax and cargo and keeping the plane in one piece, some of them are required to carry out the other duties most of us are glad to leave to them.
I'm not ex -mil', but apart from mandatory CRM courses and other fine tuning exercises, Idont see a problem with ex -mil' pilots getting dispensations for the civvie pilots licence.
Flying is perhaps the only mil' trade that has direct parallels with the civi' world, and I think that by the time a mil' pilot has reached the standards required of the ATPL, AND got the experience required for civi' flight deck positions, they will have more than paid back the training costs.
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I'd have thought that cabin boys were the perfect replacement for your little fags in the officers mess. Oh and by the way, if the air force is so great why didn't you lot do us all a favour and stay there.
NN
[This message has been edited by normal_nigel (edited 20 April 2001).]
NN
[This message has been edited by normal_nigel (edited 20 April 2001).]
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NN,
I normally don't feel your comments are ever worth replying to, but I must make an exception in this case.
<Oh yeah, and at least I don't get pissed on TV before I fly.> What an unpleasant and uneccessary comment.
You do us all a great misservice NN and I genuinely believe that you should seek help. Perhaps on your next medical signs of your instability will be noticed.
Exeng
I normally don't feel your comments are ever worth replying to, but I must make an exception in this case.
<Oh yeah, and at least I don't get pissed on TV before I fly.> What an unpleasant and uneccessary comment.
You do us all a great misservice NN and I genuinely believe that you should seek help. Perhaps on your next medical signs of your instability will be noticed.
Exeng