Pilots Feel Pushed Despite Rest Rules
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AA does indeed have a problem, and it needs to be solved, ASAP.
However, I wonder if these "problems" might just be self-induced by the pilots and their union(s).
The pilots want more pay AND more time off (consecutive days). So the airline, in order to get the required hours out of crews each month, must schedule rather long duty days. Catch-22.
However, I wonder if these "problems" might just be self-induced by the pilots and their union(s).
The pilots want more pay AND more time off (consecutive days). So the airline, in order to get the required hours out of crews each month, must schedule rather long duty days. Catch-22.
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Not at all, sky9.
However, you must look at scheduling from the company's perspective. AA and APA have signed a contract specifying pay and conditions...including minimum days off, and then still have to cover the designated trips. So, scheduling must get the very most out of crews to make it cost effective. And, the FAA has not helped at ALL by leaving the duty period regulations unchanged for many years....ie: American takes full advantage of same, quite legally.
Remember long ago having a conversation with a just-retired PanAmerican Captain. He mentioned that many PanAm Captains tried (and bid accordingly) to have all of their monthly flying completed in the first half...or the last half of the month, in order to have maximum consecutive off days. And interestingly enough, nearly 50% of those retired guys, who had retired at 60, were dead by 64.
My point is that many line pilots can not expect to have maximum time off, fly their alloted monthly hours (and make maximum pay)....and still expect to be well rested...all the time.
However, you must look at scheduling from the company's perspective. AA and APA have signed a contract specifying pay and conditions...including minimum days off, and then still have to cover the designated trips. So, scheduling must get the very most out of crews to make it cost effective. And, the FAA has not helped at ALL by leaving the duty period regulations unchanged for many years....ie: American takes full advantage of same, quite legally.
Remember long ago having a conversation with a just-retired PanAmerican Captain. He mentioned that many PanAm Captains tried (and bid accordingly) to have all of their monthly flying completed in the first half...or the last half of the month, in order to have maximum consecutive off days. And interestingly enough, nearly 50% of those retired guys, who had retired at 60, were dead by 64.
My point is that many line pilots can not expect to have maximum time off, fly their alloted monthly hours (and make maximum pay)....and still expect to be well rested...all the time.
Last edited by 411A; 13th May 2002 at 18:58.
The polyester brigade in DFW should be brought up on charges of willful collusion.
The lousy scum sucking bottom feeders of the FAA have got to be held accountable for not enforcing safety of flight issues. If a pilot does 251 kts below 10000' he gets crucified. It is a time for a complete overhaul of the FAA, including the dismantling of the agency and starting with a clean sheet.
These same clods are directly responsible for the lack of security surrounding 9-11. It is soooooo obvious that they all are on the take and working for the big airlines to keep expenses as low as possible.
The FAA is a VIOLATION!!!!!
The lousy scum sucking bottom feeders of the FAA have got to be held accountable for not enforcing safety of flight issues. If a pilot does 251 kts below 10000' he gets crucified. It is a time for a complete overhaul of the FAA, including the dismantling of the agency and starting with a clean sheet.
These same clods are directly responsible for the lack of security surrounding 9-11. It is soooooo obvious that they all are on the take and working for the big airlines to keep expenses as low as possible.
The FAA is a VIOLATION!!!!!
Grand Prix: most US airline pilots would probably sympathize and often agree with your views.
Passengers and fellow pilots:
As for minimum crew "rest" under Parts 121 and 135, is it not still defined as eight hours of so-called "continuous rest", which starts when you stop the airplane, THEN begin do a number of 'parking check' and 'securing check' items, not including possibly writing up problems in the logbook, waiting for 100-200 or more passengers to leave, so the flight attendants can follow us through the airport, waiting on the van which is now ten minutes away from the airport, go to your motel, then to the furthest rooms through the longest hallway (the encoded keys does not work on your door either?! D**N! back to the front desk), finally calling Maintenance Control from bedside phone to verify that they know about a cockpit logbook or cabin logbook write-up? Your "so-called" 8-hour rest period began about an hour ago. This is very common, and after a 10-12 hour day without a rest period, no matter what the weather systems
And your adrenaline has not quite slowed down much from a seldom-flown (practiced maybe twice in sixteen years of simulators), 'procedure turn' instrument approach in the pitch-black skies only three miles or so from Glacier National Park's mountains to a snow-covered runway, or a very busy short flight to the lowest Category One minimums through Cleveland's dense fog; adrenaline may still be flowing into your system after you have find the correct taxi route to the gate.
At the end of this rest period, if on a minimum layover you will have slept a few hours in an often noisy hotel ("quality sleep"), showered (while first coffee cools off in cold sinkwater) ridden bleary-eyed to the airport, hurried to the gate for the paperwork (or ops), and you are STILL in your rest period, otherwise, this flight might be an hour late. Why would management or the FAA think that we needed time for food or decent sleep, never mind operating in snow/ice or thunderstorms?
As laymen like to think, based on distorted/overgeneralized media or pilot impressions (the A-320/757's etc mostly automated workloads on long enroute segments) which are rarely balanced by context of situations: "your job is fairly easy, isn't it?"
Passengers and fellow pilots:
As for minimum crew "rest" under Parts 121 and 135, is it not still defined as eight hours of so-called "continuous rest", which starts when you stop the airplane, THEN begin do a number of 'parking check' and 'securing check' items, not including possibly writing up problems in the logbook, waiting for 100-200 or more passengers to leave, so the flight attendants can follow us through the airport, waiting on the van which is now ten minutes away from the airport, go to your motel, then to the furthest rooms through the longest hallway (the encoded keys does not work on your door either?! D**N! back to the front desk), finally calling Maintenance Control from bedside phone to verify that they know about a cockpit logbook or cabin logbook write-up? Your "so-called" 8-hour rest period began about an hour ago. This is very common, and after a 10-12 hour day without a rest period, no matter what the weather systems
And your adrenaline has not quite slowed down much from a seldom-flown (practiced maybe twice in sixteen years of simulators), 'procedure turn' instrument approach in the pitch-black skies only three miles or so from Glacier National Park's mountains to a snow-covered runway, or a very busy short flight to the lowest Category One minimums through Cleveland's dense fog; adrenaline may still be flowing into your system after you have find the correct taxi route to the gate.
At the end of this rest period, if on a minimum layover you will have slept a few hours in an often noisy hotel ("quality sleep"), showered (while first coffee cools off in cold sinkwater) ridden bleary-eyed to the airport, hurried to the gate for the paperwork (or ops), and you are STILL in your rest period, otherwise, this flight might be an hour late. Why would management or the FAA think that we needed time for food or decent sleep, never mind operating in snow/ice or thunderstorms?
As laymen like to think, based on distorted/overgeneralized media or pilot impressions (the A-320/757's etc mostly automated workloads on long enroute segments) which are rarely balanced by context of situations: "your job is fairly easy, isn't it?"
Last edited by Ignition Override; 16th May 2002 at 04:14.
