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SQ B777 Engine destroyed during taxi

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SQ B777 Engine destroyed during taxi

Old 23rd Dec 2013, 22:24
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Many years ago at JFK, a Ransome Airlines Nord 262 was taxiing out one dark and windy night. A wheeled luggage cart suddenly surged out of another airline's ramp as they passed by, and struck the Nord behind the wing in the passenger area. I doubt the pilots could even see it. As I recall, there was lengthy litigation about who was responsible for the unsecured cart.
An "act of god?"
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 22:25
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Fault is a rather blunt instrument, even if you can bash a few people at once with it. Whilst it will satisfy the vigilante brigade, it's unlikely to prevent re-occurrence. To achieve that you have to understand what going through the minds of the parties involved. To get understanding, you have to speak with them. And who will speak if you might get blamed? It's like the half-witted public howling for a public inquiry to determine how Event XYZ occurred - so they can blame someone. Unfortunately, wherever and whenever there's blame there will be silence or subterfuge.

Emer000 has identified some of the players but there are bound to be more. If each and every one involved were granted freedom from disciplinary measures, which is does not mean no blame, the real reasons for the incident might be revealed.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 03:50
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That's got to suck

Another such incident was the JAL 747 at LAX which was taxiing and a baggage train went past a bit too close.

First hit I found was a Daily Mail story.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 04:21
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Always refused to park when there was any sort of item inside the "foul line"...
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 04:33
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"Clear on the left everything's behind the line. " Guess this aviator has never flown freight, or looked out of the window to clear the area, with just lip service to calls and probably SOPs as well
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 04:38
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Ouch. It's always the Captain's fault (unless he/she can prove otherwise).
As for the engine damage, I'd prefer it to be written off. I wouldn't want an engine on my wing that had history of converting a ULD to CHAFF. Birds do enough damage.
I liked the commentary around the 40 second mark. I only understood two words but I'm sure they were "engine" and "blender".
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 04:42
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I couldn't understand most of the video commentary but two words stood out:

"container" and "blender"

Says it all really.

Last edited by Fris B. Fairing; 24th Dec 2013 at 04:43. Reason: clark y beat me to the punch
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 19:24
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The ULD clearly moved toward the aircraft once the aircraft was parked and therefore was not situated a safe distance from the rotating engine. Ground crew were the first hole in the layer of swiss cheese, followed by flight crew being the next layer who may have thought the clearance was adequate but were unaware that the ULD was empty and would be sucked into the engine.

If the ULD had been loaded, it would no doubt have stayed put (assuming that it was parked where the groundcrew normally leave it) and we wouldn't be discussing it here.

Don't know why it was on the LHS though.
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 00:23
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Assuming the captain was following the parking guidance, ignoring who was responsible and who would be responsible if it were to happen again, could the guidance system not scan the protected area to see if anything was there? I mean it is likely something big like a container or vehicle. The technology is surely available!
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 00:40
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They put windows in these here flying machines for a reason!
This is twice in one week!
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 00:50
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Really? The bin would have bounced around the intake and against the spinner, possibly also against fan blades, but that's about it.
Really? I hope you don't fly planes for a living and are just one of the many uninformed people on this site who wrongly think they know something worth saying about aviation
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 01:12
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Delta L1011

https://www.google.com/search?q=delt...d=0CJABEPUBMAw
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 01:37
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I hope you don't fly planes for a living
Oh no! The "I hope you're not a pilot" insult. I'm absolutely devastated now.

But anyway, being a pilot makes you an expert on ULD's in intakes does it? I guess it does since they seem to be the only ones who manages to put them there.
So as a member of the ULD sucking profession is it your expert opinion, based on your ULD sucking experience and a grainy video, that the engine is destroyed?

Then again most pilots know no more about engines than that they become noisier when the throttles go forward and that the little pretty dials then turn clockwise. And that they can be used to vacuum aprons, of course.
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 03:14
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So as a member of the ULD sucking profession is it your expert opinion, based on your ULD sucking experience and a grainy video, that the engine is destroyed?
As an engineer, not even one with engines as a speciality, I'd want all the front fan blades checked for minute fractures, as well as the disc, plus a really good check of the rest of the blades for impact signs and a really good check on anything else with impact damage. Most of it will likely be intact, but the check and repair cost may well be rather large.

I might not be an engine expert, but I've read up and seen what can happen starting with the tiniest of cracks. If you're lucky you'll just have a blade come off, and it'll all stay in the casing. If you're unlucky, the disc will fracture and it's pot luck on which direction the high-energy debris will exit the side of the engine.

Then I'd let someone else be the first to run it up, both for the ground test and its first flight.
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 09:22
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To do a 'Really Good Job' on the engine repair, there is a case to be made for changing BOTH engines...


It avoids any asymmetric thrust problems, and would synchronise the maintenance schedule for the engines.


The plane was most likely in need of an engine change anyway, so do the both whilst it is in the engineering bay. It's a quick fix and the plane is soon back in service.. Any re-usable bits can be held as spares.


Well it is Christmas after all...
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 09:51
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I think changing both engines is a bit over the top. And this won't just be an engine change. The front cowling/s and inlet duct are unlikely to have escaped damage. I also thought it was "an engineering thing" to adjust engines, old, new or in-between, so that that they deliver EPR/N1 values which are not only symmetrical engine to engine but also proportional to thrust lever position, thus avoiding throttle stagger. And is it not a "good thing" that engine maintenance schedules are out of sync? This would mean that similar processes would not occur simultaneously, thus avoiding duplication errors. Also time related failures would be minimised and less likely to occur on the same flight. I also can't see how any parts from a broken engine can be re-released as spares without a manufacturer's approval. But there again, I'm not an engineer!
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 10:19
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They WONT change both Engines for gods sake!!!

IF they placed a new/refurbished Engine on the Aircraft and the other is older it only means that the older Engine will suffer with regards to EGT margins. Therefore it will have higher fuel flow and EGT for the same EPR/N1.This will be trend monitored by Engineering data downlinks to stay within acceptable limits.

This happens quite a bit and is nothing we've not seen before on our A330's and 777's.

Engineering quite often place a notice in the front of the maintenance log for info.
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 18:22
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If you're going to replace both jetmotors, replace both aviators as well. No sense taking chances.
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Old 25th Dec 2013, 20:03
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Once upon a time,
On a flight line long ago,
An ordnance man held up the safety pins he had just removed from the missile pylons,
And they were promptly sucked out of his hand and down the engine inlet
by the attached fabric streamers.

I had a chance to observe the resulting damage to the engine blading following engine removal.
By far the worst damage was done by the fabric streamers as they caused the blades to untwist as they interfered between rotor and stator blades.

A dissassembled container frequently will contain fabric components, and there is nothing to stop those fabric components from following the airflow.
All you can do is hope that it is only the secondary airflow components that catch the bulk of the FOD because if the core engine catches the FOD, there will be really big $$$$ to pay.
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Old 26th Dec 2013, 03:09
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Originally Posted by phiggsbroadband
To do a 'Really Good Job' on the engine repair, there is a case to be made for changing BOTH engines...

It avoids any asymmetric thrust problems, and would synchronise the maintenance schedule for the engines.

The plane was most likely in need of an engine change anyway, so do the both whilst it is in the engineering bay. It's a quick fix and the plane is soon back in service.. Any re-usable bits can be held as spares.

Well it is Christmas after all...
Nice windup, Father Christmas!
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