PIA pilot suspended at LBA for violating rules!
We get random drug and alcohol tested in the Atc center where I work, breath test for booze and give a urine sample which is sent off to a lab. They tested me twice this year. Are pilots randomly tested like this?
Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 20th Sep 2013 at 23:11.
Pilots in the UK aren't tested, that may end up changing in the future. However, tests can (and are) performed on UK crews whilst downroute. An example is at Amsterdam where random checks are commonplace.
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Just to add some detail.. In the UK the drink/driving limit is 35ug/100ml of breath. All police portable intoximeters will only give a fail indication when over that limit.
The Aviation limit is 4 times less at 9ug/100ml. and would need to be measured, not by the portable meter, but by a larger calibrated machine at the nearest police station.
The Aviation limit is 4 times less at 9ug/100ml. and would need to be measured, not by the portable meter, but by a larger calibrated machine at the nearest police station.
Last edited by liam548; 21st Sep 2013 at 12:47.
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The whole random testing is such BS. I am not saying that people should be drunk flying aircraft but the authorities are missing the real danger. There should be a method to test fatigue and this should be randomly done to pilots. An airline with a high incidence of fatigued pilots should be investigated and the cause found and remedied. This would increase flight safety hugely.
How many commercial aircraft accidents over the past 20 years have had alcohol or drugs as a contributing factor. I am going to bet that anyone willing to search can't find a single one.
How many aircraft accidents over the past 20 years have had fatigue as a contributing factor. This is going to be a pretty big number.
It is madness that fatigue is not the main issue but takes a back stage to random drug and alcohol testing. These random tests do nothing to increase flight safety.
How many commercial aircraft accidents over the past 20 years have had alcohol or drugs as a contributing factor. I am going to bet that anyone willing to search can't find a single one.
How many aircraft accidents over the past 20 years have had fatigue as a contributing factor. This is going to be a pretty big number.
It is madness that fatigue is not the main issue but takes a back stage to random drug and alcohol testing. These random tests do nothing to increase flight safety.
Last edited by SloppyJoe; 21st Sep 2013 at 14:17.
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OK maybe in Russia where it is an actual problem this sort of thing may be sensible but can you honestly say you think alcohol is a bigger danger to flight safety than fatigue in almost every other country in the world?
can you honestly say you think alcohol is a bigger danger to flight safety than fatigue in almost every other country in the world?
Redirect all the money that is soaked up by the aviation anti-drug bureacracy and channel it into extra SIM hours for raw data excercises. That'll have a much better impact on current-era aircraft crashes.
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How naive some people are. SWMBO looks up from the Ipad on which she's reading the news, in particular this item, and says :
"Aren't all Pakistanis Muslims?"
"Probably not all, but certainly the majority are" I replied.
"And Muslims don't drink alcohol.......?"
Yeah, right!
"Aren't all Pakistanis Muslims?"
"Probably not all, but certainly the majority are" I replied.
"And Muslims don't drink alcohol.......?"
Yeah, right!
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Capt Bloggs ; Your post 34. Again, increasingly, I am in total agreement & beginning to enjoy your posts. What the hell is going on? Someone help me. The fight has gone, The spirit gone. Giving way to kids in the supermarket ! Heading for the medical section of Pprune right now !
Practically,Which airline is gone give a second chance to one of his pilot who get caught under the influence of alcohol when reporting for duty..?
The answer is quite a few, and in companies with a good addiction management program, a good majority of cases are picked up and people (including pilots) are put into treatment programs before there is a career catastrophic event.
Bloggs,
I don't know what the world is coming to, this is the second or third time this years I have had to agree with you.
Folks, in aviation in Australia, we are not very good at spending the safety dollar where the obvious problem are, rather the money is spent on fashion of the moment feel good fiddlefaddling, particularly if it panders to public or union prejudice.
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there is near nil evidence that flying intoxicated (I would avoid using the term "drunk" as it doesn't apply in most cases) is statistically relevant in commercial air transport safety.
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Going by the number of pilots arrested and convicted for being intoxicated when on duty then yes, it is a problem.
You can't be arrested for being fatigue on duty, thats the problem. Make a little machine that some public servant (on a gold plated pension) can bring on to your flight deck, use, and a little red light comes on to show you're fatigued. Make that an arrest-able offence, attribute it to the company for the mixture of lates/earlies, flights through the night, disruption etc. Only then will someone actually give a dam about fatigue. Lets see how many crews report for work fatigued and I garentee it will be more than reporting with a level of alcohol greater than the set limit. Until that time, we have to find something else "measurable" for public servants to be employed to try and catch us out.
Oh no.... Wait, fatigue cannot be measured by some little handheld machine? Well, we will just carry on ignoring it then as it can't be a problem because a little red light doesn't say its a problem.
Never mind the fact that it has some form of influence in 15-20% of all aviation accidents, not like bral's 2.
I better stop using my Listerine mouth wash before I go to work then, as that can make the machines little red light come on.........
Pathetic.
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Exactly this thread is about alcohol not tiredness; when you sign in for a trip you also sign that you are fit to operate it.
Sooner or later random breath testing will come as it did in the railway industry and others including the UK armed forces which have random drug testing.
If those who fly both in the two best seats in the house and down the back want the best deal out of if they should IMHO volunteer to have this testing. They should suggest it.
Believe me that foisted on you won't come with such good terms.
Sooner or later random breath testing will come as it did in the railway industry and others including the UK armed forces which have random drug testing.
If those who fly both in the two best seats in the house and down the back want the best deal out of if they should IMHO volunteer to have this testing. They should suggest it.
Believe me that foisted on you won't come with such good terms.
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He is not allowed booze in his country (openly). He gets to fly to a country where he can drink at a pub...... He does it and goes overboard. I am sure this is not the first time in his career he has done it, just that he got away all this time and thought he could again. A person of his age in a company like PIA, I doubt anyone in his own country or station manager or crew would dare report him, primarily as they are for the most part in the same boat.
Prohibition bred bootlegging and alcoholism in countries where it is taboo/prohibited breeds binge drinking as they do not know when they will get the chance for the next drink!
I would have loved to see how many duty free bottles of liquor were stuffed the carryon and the galley of that aircraft for sale in the "Black markets" of Islamabad!
Prohibition bred bootlegging and alcoholism in countries where it is taboo/prohibited breeds binge drinking as they do not know when they will get the chance for the next drink!
I would have loved to see how many duty free bottles of liquor were stuffed the carryon and the galley of that aircraft for sale in the "Black markets" of Islamabad!
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when you sign in for a trip you also sign that you are fit to operate it.
Anyone lacking the self-discipline to self-monitor, is, IMHO, not fit to be in command of a commercial transport.
All this bleating about "hard to overcome addiction" Eh?....had the willpower to study and finance the acquisition of a licence, now, all of a sudden, that resolve has evaporated, and the poor,helpless jet-jocky is in thrall to addiction???
NO! wants to have the penny and the toffee, and is egotistical enough to think that, because he/she has earned the licence and paid for it, they've become one of the invincible elite.
Yea, I've had a hard life too, but I didn't prejudice my livelihood by breaking all the rules and risking other lives as well.
Wanna be a Pilot ?train driver ?Ship's Captain? HGV Driver?
Make sure your body is free from alcohol and drugs, before and during your duty!....Can't manage that?....you can't manage a command -post responsibility, then.
tough cheese, nobody said life's fair.