Incident at Heathrow
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Reassuring to know that pax in a damaged aeroplane seem to think its OK to further hazard proceedings by so blatantly contravening safety instructions and using electronic devices during landing.
I rather hope he gets strung up for that.
I rather hope he gets strung up for that.
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Firstly well done to the crew and airport services.
Given that we have an incident with an aircraft where there are potential problems with both engines, is there any prescident to arrange the divertion to one of the other London airports on the basis that it does not involve an approach over a large population density ? Or do we believe that Heathrow would have been the closest (seems unlikely if their track took them over Essex) ? More ammunition for Boris Island I think.
Given that we have an incident with an aircraft where there are potential problems with both engines, is there any prescident to arrange the divertion to one of the other London airports on the basis that it does not involve an approach over a large population density ? Or do we believe that Heathrow would have been the closest (seems unlikely if their track took them over Essex) ? More ammunition for Boris Island I think.
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Well handled, congrats the crew.
BUT - how wise is it to return to LHR from the LAM area, crossing all of central London in this case? Especially, as there is no shortage of airports to the E and NE of London (Stansted, Southend, Manston).
BUT - how wise is it to return to LHR from the LAM area, crossing all of central London in this case? Especially, as there is no shortage of airports to the E and NE of London (Stansted, Southend, Manston).
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First off, whatever cause may be determined, it looks and sounds like everybody involved in the incident did their jobs competently and produced a safe (and, probably, the best) outcome....as you would expect from professional operators, whether on the aircraft or on the ground.
The comments regarding BAW vs. other aircraft operators are completely inappropriate. There are professional operators the world over, just as there are less professional outfits. And for anyone wondering whether they are involved with one of the less professional orgainisations, ask yourself not whether you 'would have stuffed it in' (thanks for that gatbusdriver
) but whether your organisation prepares you and every other part of its operation to handle the incident in a good way.
And another thing....
So which bit of the safety briefing does this pax not understand?
Now I know that the evidence on whether portable electronics affects aircraft systems is equivocal but the simple fact is, the briefings say don't use them.
The comments regarding BAW vs. other aircraft operators are completely inappropriate. There are professional operators the world over, just as there are less professional outfits. And for anyone wondering whether they are involved with one of the less professional orgainisations, ask yourself not whether you 'would have stuffed it in' (thanks for that gatbusdriver
) but whether your organisation prepares you and every other part of its operation to handle the incident in a good way. And another thing....
Heathrow: l'atterraggio di emergenza ripreso da un passeggero - Repubblica Tv - la Repubblica.it
Now I know that the evidence on whether portable electronics affects aircraft systems is equivocal but the simple fact is, the briefings say don't use them.
Media coverage gets worse ....
Here's (quote) the "Surveillance track of BA762" (whose surveillance, exactly?)
Clearly if the fan cowls hadn't already fallen off, they would have done during that 10g turn over Brentwood.
Surveillance track of BA762, flight involved in Heathrow evac... on Twitpic
Here's (quote) the "Surveillance track of BA762" (whose surveillance, exactly?)
Clearly if the fan cowls hadn't already fallen off, they would have done during that 10g turn over Brentwood.
Surveillance track of BA762, flight involved in Heathrow evac... on Twitpic
Last edited by DaveReidUK; 24th May 2013 at 12:19.
Speculation.
So, there's a walkround check item which requires a pilot to get his/her trouser knees dirty?
Guess what BA company policy is on dirty trousers?
Which is more noticeable - checks not done properly ("Looks good enough from here") or dirty trouser knees?
Admin policy, certainly in RAF accidents 20 years ago, was at least a minor contributory factor in a third of all cases.
Would seem to me to be better airmanship to take off with the checks done properly, than to display excellent handling of an unnecessary emergency.
So, there's a walkround check item which requires a pilot to get his/her trouser knees dirty?
Guess what BA company policy is on dirty trousers?
Which is more noticeable - checks not done properly ("Looks good enough from here") or dirty trouser knees?
Admin policy, certainly in RAF accidents 20 years ago, was at least a minor contributory factor in a third of all cases.
Would seem to me to be better airmanship to take off with the checks done properly, than to display excellent handling of an unnecessary emergency.
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 24th May 2013 at 12:24.
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>>Here's (quote) the "Surveillance track of BA762"
Nice to see they were keeping it clear of London, just in case. But then there is always that dirty-dive across London for the ILS lock-on. Surprised they did not go to Stanstead instead.
Of course if we had a Thames Gateway (Silver-Boris) airport, we would not have this problem.
Nice to see they were keeping it clear of London, just in case. But then there is always that dirty-dive across London for the ILS lock-on. Surprised they did not go to Stanstead instead.
Of course if we had a Thames Gateway (Silver-Boris) airport, we would not have this problem.
Last edited by silverstrata; 24th May 2013 at 12:26.
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OK I'm only SLF but until every airline has the same incident in the same circs you just cannot state that one airline would not handle the incident as well as the BA crew.
I'm sure that many other airlines would handle this just as well so don't use this to knock loco's and their crews.
I'm sure that many other airlines would handle this just as well so don't use this to knock loco's and their crews.
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Originally Posted by direct ortac
Why both RWYs closed? Likely no fire cover as all in attendance at the incident
How wise is it to return to LHR from the LAM area, crossing all of central London in this case? Especially, as there is no shortage of airports to the E and NE of London (Stansted, Southend, Manston).
Heathrow has the longest runway in the south east and it also has two runways to choose from. It is also BA's home base and the crew may/probably have put a return to LHR in the secondary flight plan before departure and briefed this.
Heathrow has the longest runway in the south east and it also has two runways to choose from. It is also BA's home base and the crew may/probably have put a return to LHR in the secondary flight plan before departure and briefed this.
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Getting your knees dirty?? OK, I only fly 737, but I don't need to get my knee on the ground to look under the engines. On the 737, the cowls don't stay shut if they are not latched properly. You would need to be half blind to overlook an unlocked cowl.
I actually though the 320 was the same, but obviously not.
So, if they departed with engine cowlings unlocked, should we praise BA for sloppy maintenance and a poor preflight inspection by the crew?
I actually though the 320 was the same, but obviously not.
So, if they departed with engine cowlings unlocked, should we praise BA for sloppy maintenance and a poor preflight inspection by the crew?
Last edited by ManaAdaSystem; 24th May 2013 at 12:43.
You don't need to put your knee on the ground to look under the cowls of an IAE engine. Just crouch and maybe put one hand down. It's SOP with us to visually check the engine cowl latches.
Even if you do put your knee on the ground, ramps are usually pretty clean, and anyway uniform trousers are black, so it wouldn't show!
Even if you do put your knee on the ground, ramps are usually pretty clean, and anyway uniform trousers are black, so it wouldn't show!
Last edited by Uplinker; 24th May 2013 at 12:42.
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BOTH-ENGINE MAINTENANCE PRACTICES.
Post G-OBMM, the recommendation was NOT to perform critical maintenance on both engines of twins at the same time.
If cowlings on 'buses can be regarded as critical, then one has to ask if and why this was allowed?
The choice of an approach over London will be interesting to discuss at the debrief!
If cowlings on 'buses can be regarded as critical, then one has to ask if and why this was allowed?
The choice of an approach over London will be interesting to discuss at the debrief!
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Post G-OBMM, the recommendation was NOT to
perform critical maintenance on both engines of twins at the same
time.
IF (and it is a BIG IF) the problem is found to be unlocked cowlings, I would not assume they had performed critical maintenance on both engines at the same time unless you consider the daily checks like oil top ups are critical. If you do, how the hell can you avoid it?
Contrary to what most SLF believe, a modern commercial airplane with an engine problem will not fall out of the sky.
Last edited by Uplinker; 24th May 2013 at 16:18.
OPENDOOR
"Echos of Kegworth"?
eh?
What do you mean by that?
Are you suggesting that they shut down the wrong engine?
What a bizarre comment.
"Echos of Kegworth"?
eh?
What do you mean by that?
Are you suggesting that they shut down the wrong engine?
What a bizarre comment.
one presumes they asked for vectors back, and ATC kept them clear of London. Do you have a problem with that assumption?
The aircraft was on the localiser by about 18nm out, just south of LCY, and its track from that point was like pretty well any other 27R arrival, taking it about a mile to the south of the Houses of Parliament.
Hardly "clear of London".