Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Belly Landing at Newark

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Belly Landing at Newark

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 18th May 2013, 13:06
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wallisellen, Switzerland
Age: 75
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Belly Landing at Newark

ABC News reports: Landing Gear Issue Leads to Plane's Belly Landing - ABC News

Last edited by AmericanFlyer; 18th May 2013 at 13:06.
AmericanFlyer is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 15:42
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wheaton, IL
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Video

There is an amateur video of the landing and photo of the damaged plane posted on avherald: Accident: Piedmont DH8A at Newark on May 18th 2013, intentional belly landing
electric-chris is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 16:40
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,226
Received 14 Likes on 8 Posts
Pix here:

US Airways flight makes emergency belly landing at Newark Airport, authorities say - NY Daily News

Dash-8 (which is what I expected with this route and airline). Looks like a textbook wings-level, full-flaps landing. Good job!

EDIT: also on avherald, with amateur video. The fact it was at night makes the fireworks show a bit more impressive.

Accident: Piedmont DH8A at Newark on May 18th 2013, intentional belly landing

Last edited by pattern_is_full; 18th May 2013 at 16:50.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 19:10
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Age: 52
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Low approach to check the landing gear? This can't be right. It would be obvious to anyone from inside the cockpit or cabin to immediately see that they hadn't locked, as they're in the nacelles and clearly visible on the Dash 8.
AdamFrisch is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 19:23
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: On a good day - at sea
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That was my first Engineering job out of University - Structural Eng group at DHC . Man I'm proud of that thing. The guy in charge of Landing Gear was a a bit.......close minded?.

Last edited by nnc0; 18th May 2013 at 19:24.
nnc0 is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 20:50
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The amount of emergency vehicles racing to the scene looks like typical American overkill. It was only a Dash 8, not an A380
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 21:04
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Oxfordshire
Posts: 637
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
Better to have redundant emergency personnel/equipment than not enough. Good practice for the response teams too. (Edit...smiley just noticed!)

Last edited by Blues&twos; 18th May 2013 at 21:05.
Blues&twos is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 22:08
  #8 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,624
Received 64 Likes on 45 Posts
The guy in charge of Landing Gear was a a bit.......close minded?.
R.S.? I liked him, and his designs. That's a long leg to get into a short nacelle...

I think the Dash 8 has a fairly enviable record for landing gear reliability, aside from a blip with a few -400's.
Pilot DAR is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 22:28
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When I started my commercial career on F27s I questioned my peers on the subject of a single MLG problem, would they land on the remaining leg and nosegear or retract the whole lot and do a belly landing? My view was, as in this case, to carry out a belly landing, but I never managed to get a straight answer from anyone back then.
RAFAT is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 22:40
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,226
Received 14 Likes on 8 Posts
As I recall, the Q400 problems were with gear collapses after landing, rather than failure to extend. Root cause may or may not be the same.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 18th May 2013, 23:09
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Deep South
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Correct me if I am wrong but when the q400s had a gear problem on one side they had to get the pax away from the adjacent prop-line of seats as and when it settled on the deck. Looking at the 100 incident the props look ok? ie no prop impact on the ground landing straight and level.
macuser is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 11:35
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sol, sector ZZ9 plural Z alpha
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Low approach to check the landing gear? This can't be right. It would be obvious to anyone from inside the cockpit or cabin to immediately see that they hadn't locked, as they're in the nacelles and clearly visible on the Dash 8.
AdamFrisch:

You must be joking, right? Nothing is obvious from the flight deck when you have gear indication issues. You always obtan a second opinion if you can get it. I do hope my use of thr word "You" only applies in the generic sense!
Clear_Prop is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 13:55
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think what he means to say is that because of the high-wing design the entire engine nacelle and landing gear is visible out of the pax windows and therefore they could have simply gotten cabin crew to look out of the window rather than doing a low fly-by and thereby confirm the problem sooner.
Burnie5204 is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 14:37
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why didn't the emergency gear extension system work on this occasion?
training wheels is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 16:01
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sol, sector ZZ9 plural Z alpha
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Burnie5204:

Yes, I understood that much. I'm familiar with the design layout of the Dash. That's not the point I was making.

training wheels:

emergency gear extension system is not a get out of jail free card. It is effective only in particular circumstances and cannot be expected to work in all types of gear failure situations.

Last edited by Clear_Prop; 19th May 2013 at 16:01.
Clear_Prop is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 16:13
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So what was your point then because I agree with the previous poster. What is the point in doing a tower flypast when the Cabin Crew can just look out the window and go "nope, its not down" thus confirming (i.e. the second opinion) the Gear Not Safe indication. Especially as CC are closer to the affected MLG with a much clearer view than a tower controller peering out the window, possibly through binoculars.

No doubt the Captain had his reason but I just dont see it (pun not intended) when theres 31 pax + crew in the rear cabin who have a better view than a tower controller.

Last edited by Burnie5204; 19th May 2013 at 16:20.
Burnie5204 is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 17:13
  #17 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 77
Posts: 4,143
Received 224 Likes on 66 Posts
I reckon they can use it again; means a good job done by all.
Herod is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 17:22
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sol, sector ZZ9 plural Z alpha
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The point is that you have a gear unsafe indication. It might look like its down from your vantage point, but the lights don't agree that it is safe to land on. Whatever the problem is, you might not be able to see it by peering through a window (especially at night), but it might actually appear more obvious to somebody on the ground with a broader view of your aircraft. It may not... but its common sense to get somebody to look at it in a low level flyby. I have seen this done dozens of times and the aircraft type is irrelevant. Before you commit to an expensive belly landing its worth considering all the options. The report stated that the pilot chose to land wheels up after the observers on the ground commented that the suspect leg did not look fully extended, so their observation was clearly relevant to the decision tree process.
Clear_Prop is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 18:59
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lat..x Long..y
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To Belly land or cripple land

I vouch for the low pass fly by exam even if a cabin observer confirms an abnormality.The exterior inspection might have offered a view of any further abnormalities not observed from insider eyes.

Some companies(mine included) espoused the option of landing with any gear that is secured down even if one! I have not determined wheher the reason for that was to minimise fuselage damage as the plane would lose aerodynamic support at a later stage and lower speed before collapsing on the lame side... all views welcomed

A B727 with a faulty nosewheel was saved in the flare hollywood style by a truck that intercepted the landing and piggy backed the nose gear(effectively towing it and avoided a nose impact)..would a similar heroic stunt have been useful to shoulder the falling wing. With the failed MLG engine shut down before landing to minimise hazard for the rescue truck??..I wonder
Vc10Tail is offline  
Old 19th May 2013, 19:35
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lat..x Long..y
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ok465

It might look funny to you...but that truck can be a great resource...and I did not say in this instance the truck would intercept from the front.If I was the Captain and such assistance was psrovided..I would work with whatever resoutce that becomes available to ensure a safe outcome that day..and that includes a truck or whatever other device that comes to your imagination.In such dire circumstances it pays to think outside the box mate..SOPs are only guidelines and legal ass shields.
Vc10Tail is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.