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avherald: Pilots fired for letting pax take pilot seat

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avherald: Pilots fired for letting pax take pilot seat

Old 15th May 2013, 19:42
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avherald: Pilots fired for letting pax take pilot seat

Incident: TAM A320 enroute on Apr 28th 2013, passenger in captain's seat
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Old 15th May 2013, 20:08
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How sad that the world has come to this.

What they were fired for, we used to take for granted.
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Old 15th May 2013, 21:09
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I suppose Rio whilst the brake was setbwould have been a better place for pix.

Wonder what is written in TAM's FOM about who is and is no allowed to occupy a flight crew member's seat whilst in flight.
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Old 15th May 2013, 21:13
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What they were fired for, we used to take for granted.
In Africa maybe, but not here in Europe.

Twenty years ago, AND the story would have hit the papers (with photo's), they would have been fired as well..

Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 15th May 2013 at 21:17.
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:30
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Have to disagree with you a little gys, in as much that "here in Europe" is too generic. As ATC, I had my a moments in the left or right hand seat with a number of European operators, often working the r/t too. I remember in the 70's when shortly after take-off from PMI the Captain gave me his seat and didn't take it back until just before TOD into MAN. I did the nav and r/t all the way. The pax saw me (open cockpit door policy) but in those days they didn't go running to the media. The general attitude was, "you lucky bugger"! This was on a British airline too. Things like that were more the norm than people today want to believe. There were no accidents until the famous Aeroflot case, but that was different since neither pilots were in their seats at the time.
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Old 15th May 2013, 23:30
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Fuys,

The pax, a not-so-famous singer, won the "Mile High Club Triple Crow Award" with this one!

Pls, forgive me the bad mouth bellow...

He managed to three in a row in the same flight: The Captain, First Officer and the Purser!

All theee got fired!
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Old 15th May 2013, 23:52
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Sorry to diagree Sydy... The capt. f/o and purser screwed themselves. Not the libretto.
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Old 16th May 2013, 00:20
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As a small kid in the late 70s I was flying with my parents to Tenerife, I was invited during cruise to the cockpit and sat on the captains lap, could take the yoke in my hand and "fly" the aircraft. We did a little aileron wiggle and I was afraid and excited. Those were the days, gone now
During a recent travel, my son, I guess same age now as I was then, was shown the cockpit after a recent flight.

Last edited by grimmrad; 16th May 2013 at 00:22.
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Old 16th May 2013, 00:43
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captjns,

I do agree with you, sir!

As we say down here in Brazil: I loose the friend, but never the joke.

It is a bad taste/black humor joke anyway.
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Old 16th May 2013, 00:43
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At Istanbul Airlines when overbooked, they would ask if I would allow them to sell the jumpseats...(B-727)...My answer was always "But Of Course, it would be rude to refuse"...But only if I got to pick the 2 lucky pax...Sit on your lap pics? Of Course...In the seat? Never...
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Old 16th May 2013, 01:42
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For as long as I can remember, our national regulations say:

226. During flight, a person may occupy a control seat of an aircraft equipped with fully or partially functioning dual controls only if:
(a) the person holds an appropriate pilot licence for the type of aircraft and the class of operations in which the aircraft is flown;

Sackable offence? That's another issue.
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Old 16th May 2013, 01:50
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Both my 5 year old Daughter and 3 year old son have sat in the LH seat of a 747 with a major British Airline and 'flown' the aircraft in the cruise. The 3 year old was better at flying the flight director than the 5 year old.

The SFO was always in complete control of course.

What a heinous crime.
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Old 16th May 2013, 03:01
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Seeing who the "singer" is, it makes sense if displaying abysmally bad taste is a sackable offence.
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:11
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keep the envelope firmly sealed thanks

I've seen too many accident reports where the unexpected happens and type rated crew are very quickly thrust into managing an emergency. God forbid such a scenario occurs and the captain or FO are now trying to switch seats with, or even fight off a passenger who may have caused it to begin with. At the most he should have simply been allowed to visit.

Alarmist? I don't know, but I'm extremely conservative when it comes to people being transported high above the breathable atmosphere at high speed in a pressurized tube thank you. Kind of harsh to fire them though, unless there had been other issues.

Last edited by slf4life; 16th May 2013 at 05:21.
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:17
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Way back in the late 70s, as a kid I was on flight from LHR to DAC, with a stop I believe in DOH. For the vast majority of the flight in a 707 I was in the cockpit - initially in the RH seat. When the captain went to take a break, the right seat was taken back by the SO, and I moved into the LH seat.

At some point in the flight, with the captain still out, both the FO and the FE left the cockpit - leaving me in the LH seat alone in the cockpit...

Go figure - plane still got to the intended destination, and nobody was fired, or a big deal made of it - although they probably should have in that case...

I was pretty well versed in the theory of flight at the time, and had a good understanding of what the instruments and controls were there for, and how they worked. Not to mention that I was not able to reach the rudder pedals and any other controls at the same time in any case...
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Old 16th May 2013, 08:44
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If you had lost an engine while the 3 idiots were not in the cockpit
The autopilot would have probably disconnected and you would be dead since 1970 as well as all people's on board
All airlines have a policy that you need to have a valid pilot license and a type type rating in order to occupy a pilot seat. It is not very complicated to understand.As well as since 911 most if not all the airlines have a policy that no one is allowed in the cockpit while in flight excepted peoples with an approval . in Japan the cockpit door have to be close and locked before boarding. So each pilots have to follow their airlines rules and if you d ont you have to accept the consequence
When people's are paying and flying in an airplane they put their trust in the crew and this is the responsibility of that crew to act professionally
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Old 16th May 2013, 12:56
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The days of aviation from the 60's 70's and AIRPLANE are behind us now.

9/11 help mold the accessibility for visitors to the cockpit.

Company Operations Manuals, along with Regulations have also be amended to reflect accessibility for visitors to the cockpit during flight. Manuals and Air Regulations have also been amended over the years to specifically outline who may occupy a flight crewmembers seat during flight too. The Regulations and Company Manuals include clear and concise language as to the consequences that may be faced should a crewmember go rogue.


Isn't it easier to follow the regulations and company procedures rather than risk being fired, or even worse losing an airman certificate?

That said, if one feels that change is in order, than perhaps one should start the ball rolling with their supervisor, the C/P, and follow the chain of command.

Until such time that happens, then no tea or sympathy those who choose to cross the line, or violate company procedures, which is tantamount to insubordination.

Last edited by captjns; 16th May 2013 at 12:56.
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Old 16th May 2013, 13:02
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Massalama Brazil!

The glory days of Brazilian Commercial Aviation had finished more than 7 years ago. Now the brazilian pilots have only the rest of the cheese. And this part of the cheese stinks very badly.
Time to go abroad and let the Brazilian Part 121 for young boys and girls who still live with their parents.

Massalama Brazil!
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Old 16th May 2013, 13:07
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Lest we forget the Aeroflot A310 crash over Russia. The Captains son was having a fly from the left seat. The aircraft entered a state of flight from which the First Officer could not recover, resulting in the lost of the aircraft.
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Old 16th May 2013, 13:24
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I'm sure it's never been allowed- and it would be unthinkable these days but I certainly remember visiting the flight deck on a UK charter airline 737 in the early 80's and sat in the captain's seat for at least 15 minutes whilst Sir was in the galley chatting up the hosties. I even turned the aircraft using the heading knob!

Now I am in the LHS I wouldn't dream of allowing such a stunt- but it happens from time to time- people get carried away with the occasion and it only takes a moment of madness and that's an ended career. There have been numerous such stunts over the years. The problem nowadays is that you can expect any photos to be on Twitbook within minutes of landing.

As a trainer, I always remind my new captains to seriously think what they say on the PA or RT- in the event of an incident or whatever- it only takes a flip comment and because some idiot will always be recording everything, that comment will possibly make itself into the media and open up a world of trouble!

We live in a different world to that of 30 years ago. No more welcoming people into our rather secret world any more.
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