Russian passenger jet shot at over Syria?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bollington, Cheshire
Age: 72
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russian passenger jet shot at over Syria?
(SY) Passenger Jet from Russia reportedly encountered arms fire while passing through Syria but avoided damage - Russia press - Source TradeTheNews.com
Please remove if duplicate thread
Please remove if duplicate thread
Given the conditions in Syria these days, this news report does not surprise me. I am a bit more surprised that we don't hear similar reports more often.
Reportedly Nordwind charter from Sharm el Sheik to Kazan, with 159 pax, targeted by two SAM-s (almost certainly of Soviet/Russian make), pilots had to take evasive action.
Cannot really fanthom why they took that route when flying North to the Med and then accross to Turkey would have avoided Syrian airspace with a very minimal detour.
Cannot really fanthom why they took that route when flying North to the Med and then accross to Turkey would have avoided Syrian airspace with a very minimal detour.
Last edited by andrasz; 29th Apr 2013 at 19:25.
Russia has previously warned FSA and it Al Q allies that target Russians and they will take quick and direct action using special forces with no rules of engagement.
Given the way they targeted Lebanese kidnappers of Russians in the 1980's its not a message that gets open to misinterpretation. One kidnap of Russians was all that happened in Lebannon, parts of family members of perpetrators suggested a second attempt may get even bloodier, funny that a second kidmapping never happened.
Given the way they targeted Lebanese kidnappers of Russians in the 1980's its not a message that gets open to misinterpretation. One kidnap of Russians was all that happened in Lebannon, parts of family members of perpetrators suggested a second attempt may get even bloodier, funny that a second kidmapping never happened.
ASN Aircraft accident 29-APR-2013 Airbus A320-232 VP-BJH
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SCL sometimes
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy. Syrians are kind enough to install transponders in their missiles 
.
Now seriously, do you really think something like this could ever be possible? To me, this sounds like nonsense.
.Now seriously, do you really think something like this could ever be possible? To me, this sounds like nonsense.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Betwixt and between
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pardon my lack of knowledge, but how can the pilots know they have been shot at and "take evasive action"?
Last edited by Sciolistes; 30th Apr 2013 at 02:10.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wellington
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm guessing that last comment was tounge in cheek, why would a civilian A320 have any kind of EWF warning system? I bet the first they knew of it was the two explosions nearby that must have rattled the crap out of them.
Old technology SAM-s are incapable of catching up with a jet at cruise altitude (run out of fuel before being able to do so), so the only chance is if they are launched head-on towards an appraching aircraft. The contrails are clearly visible. Lucky someone was looking out on the window.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being as they were designed to down bombers at altitude that seems pretty unlikely. I seem to recall a US U2 piloted by one Francis Gary Powers was shot down by a Soviet SAM at 60+ thousand feet in the sixties.
Powers was shot down with the same heads on technique which the Soviets developed as a result of the U2 overflights. It was thought that no SAM's can catch up with a U2 at those speeds / altitudes, which was true but a carefully timed heads on launch did the trick.
It is all a functuon of speed/fuel. The faster the missile, the more fuel it consumes over distance covered, thus the range is shorter. SAMs which have the capability to catch up with jet aircraft at high altitudes need to be fairly large and need a very carefully timed launch window. I doubt that the Syrian rebels would have the capability to operate the sophisticated modern SAMs even if they captured a battery, but launching any of the old generation soviet A/A weaponry dispersed all about Syria (dating mainly from the sixties and seventies) would be well within their ability. The chances of scoring a direct hit with those is pretty slim though. The vast majority of successful SAM hits in Vietnam were accomplished by Soviet crews, the Vietnamese were just popping them away with very little effect.
It is all a functuon of speed/fuel. The faster the missile, the more fuel it consumes over distance covered, thus the range is shorter. SAMs which have the capability to catch up with jet aircraft at high altitudes need to be fairly large and need a very carefully timed launch window. I doubt that the Syrian rebels would have the capability to operate the sophisticated modern SAMs even if they captured a battery, but launching any of the old generation soviet A/A weaponry dispersed all about Syria (dating mainly from the sixties and seventies) would be well within their ability. The chances of scoring a direct hit with those is pretty slim though. The vast majority of successful SAM hits in Vietnam were accomplished by Soviet crews, the Vietnamese were just popping them away with very little effect.
Last edited by andrasz; 1st May 2013 at 16:03.
Did you mean Powers, or Powell, andrasz? 
Tail chase math:
if your missile flies at Mach+ speeds, and the target flies below Mach 1, (granted, with a lot of vertical component versus horizontal for the missile) is it not within the realm of probability to chase one down?
Yes, fuel capacity and burn time is an issue, hence engagement geometry for best Pk doesn't tend to be tail chase ...
Tail chase math:
if your missile flies at Mach+ speeds, and the target flies below Mach 1, (granted, with a lot of vertical component versus horizontal for the missile) is it not within the realm of probability to chase one down?
Yes, fuel capacity and burn time is an issue, hence engagement geometry for best Pk doesn't tend to be tail chase ...
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 1st May 2013 at 15:11.
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
Did you mean Powers, or Powell ?
...and yes, mach++ missiles can catch up with a subsonic a/c form the rear, provided the trajectory is precisely timed and the missile is fired from within range.
Last edited by andrasz; 1st May 2013 at 18:22.