Lufthansa 747 diversion due smoke in cabin
Smoke Vs Panic
Is it possible that the Cabin Crew (who are standing up and moving about) were much more affected by the smoke than the Pax? The tears and the voice changes could both come from that; then you add a bit of 'artistic licence' to the telling and voila!
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I'll remember not to read any of Ed Vulliamy's future articles if he does so little research.
Granada Television's Foreign Correspondent of the Year Award for 1992.
James Cameron Award in 1994.
Foreign Reporter of the Year in 1993 and 1997.
As I said earlier, this guy is a serious political reporter who has won many awards and has written four acclaimed books on Bosnia and corruption in the UK political situation. He has also spoken out against powerful figures who tried to play down the murders at Srebrenica for which he took a hell of a lot of flak before eventually being proved right.
He is an outstanding journalist, writer and an outspoken humanitarian.
The only reason he has written this article is because he was actually on the flight and I guess he treated it as a light-hearted 'tabloid' piece compared to his usual fare, which is unpicking complex political situations.
Not making excuses, just putting the piece in perspective.
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We have two pax from the flight over at Flyertalk who reported a quite different story: LH499 MEX-FRA 07-Mar-2013 diverted to TER - FlyerTalk Forums
They were in business, no talk of a 'revolt'. The article is a farce and self contradicting a few times.
They were in business, no talk of a 'revolt'. The article is a farce and self contradicting a few times.
Someone mentioned putting ground air conditioning on. It is uncomfortable in warm weather to be stuck in an aircraft with no a/c and I guess, if it had been daytime the pax would have been disembarked.
I'm wondering if the reason for no a/c was that, with engineers in the u/c bay, they didn't want to pressurise the a/c and/or bleed air ducts.
As I've said many times before: "There's always a reason." It's just that finding it is sometimes difficult
I'm wondering if the reason for no a/c was that, with engineers in the u/c bay, they didn't want to pressurise the a/c and/or bleed air ducts.
As I've said many times before: "There's always a reason." It's just that finding it is sometimes difficult
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Toxic Air Detector vs Human Nose?
Toxic Air Detector vs Human Nose.
Any comments on which might be expected to be used in passenger airliners - in 2013?
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/do...09-05-2011.pdf
Or from mid WW2:
An extract from 'Fly for your life' a true story of Battle of Britain fighter ace Wing commander Robert Stanford Tuck D.S.O D.F.C and two bars by Larry Forrester. Tuck was renowned for his good luck. Tuck’s luck.
They were having a little teething trouble with the Hawker Typhoons; Carbon monoxide fumes were coming back from the stub exhausts into the cockpit, sometimes in sufficient quantities to nauseate the pilots. The boffins came and tinkered with the exhausts and said they thought they had reduced the amount of fumes. To make sure, they fitted in the cockpit of one machine a little box which could measure the exact percentage of carbon monoxide in the air inside the cabin. They asked for a number of test flights: Prosser Hanks did most, Tuck did a few. There seemed to be a definite improvement.
One day towards the end of the test programme, he was walking out to the test Typhoon with his parachute over his shoulder when an airman stuck his head out of the window and called “Telephone, Sir!” At that moment the ground crew finished their starting drill and the Typhoon’s huge Napier Sabre engine exploded into life: if she wasn’t taken off quickly she would overheat. He signalled that he couldn’t take the call and continued out to the aircraft, but the airman came running after him and bawled through cupped hands: “It’s the Station Commander, Sir. Say’s its very important!”
He groaned, dumped his chute and started back. At the door of the dispersal hut stood one of his best pilots, a young Argentinian named Dack. This boy had flown one or two of the tests. “Dacky, you take her. You know the drill.” The kid nodded, grabbed his gear and hurried out as Tuck lifted the phone.
Group Captain Mac Donald wanted to discuss arrangements for night flying during the coming week. It was important, but it could have waited an hour or so. They talked for perhaps ten minutes, then Tuck went out and sat in one of the cane chairs, smoking and looking out over the fields.
Out of the hazy blue he saw a Typhoon diving. It didn’t pull out. It disappeared behind some trees about a mile on the other side and raised a tremendous cone of flame and smoke.
He rode out with the crash trucks. A big, smoking crater and a field littered with scraps of metal. Twelve feet down in the brown earth: the remains of the big engine. Of the pilot: only little red lumps, half a shoe, scraps of clothing, part of a watch strap.
A check with control proved it could only be Dack. There had been no enemy activity all day, so he hadn’t been shot down. The cause of his death might always be a mystery, because there wasn’t enough left of his machine to give the technical experts a clue.
But the Aviation Medical people solved it. They found a piece of Dack’s liver and analysed the contents: enough carbon monoxide to kill an elephant.
Probably something had gone wrong with the Boffins little box. Instead of trapping the fumes it must have pumped out enough to make the pilot pass out."
Any comments on which might be expected to be used in passenger airliners - in 2013?
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/do...09-05-2011.pdf
Or from mid WW2:
An extract from 'Fly for your life' a true story of Battle of Britain fighter ace Wing commander Robert Stanford Tuck D.S.O D.F.C and two bars by Larry Forrester. Tuck was renowned for his good luck. Tuck’s luck.
They were having a little teething trouble with the Hawker Typhoons; Carbon monoxide fumes were coming back from the stub exhausts into the cockpit, sometimes in sufficient quantities to nauseate the pilots. The boffins came and tinkered with the exhausts and said they thought they had reduced the amount of fumes. To make sure, they fitted in the cockpit of one machine a little box which could measure the exact percentage of carbon monoxide in the air inside the cabin. They asked for a number of test flights: Prosser Hanks did most, Tuck did a few. There seemed to be a definite improvement.
One day towards the end of the test programme, he was walking out to the test Typhoon with his parachute over his shoulder when an airman stuck his head out of the window and called “Telephone, Sir!” At that moment the ground crew finished their starting drill and the Typhoon’s huge Napier Sabre engine exploded into life: if she wasn’t taken off quickly she would overheat. He signalled that he couldn’t take the call and continued out to the aircraft, but the airman came running after him and bawled through cupped hands: “It’s the Station Commander, Sir. Say’s its very important!”
He groaned, dumped his chute and started back. At the door of the dispersal hut stood one of his best pilots, a young Argentinian named Dack. This boy had flown one or two of the tests. “Dacky, you take her. You know the drill.” The kid nodded, grabbed his gear and hurried out as Tuck lifted the phone.
Group Captain Mac Donald wanted to discuss arrangements for night flying during the coming week. It was important, but it could have waited an hour or so. They talked for perhaps ten minutes, then Tuck went out and sat in one of the cane chairs, smoking and looking out over the fields.
Out of the hazy blue he saw a Typhoon diving. It didn’t pull out. It disappeared behind some trees about a mile on the other side and raised a tremendous cone of flame and smoke.
He rode out with the crash trucks. A big, smoking crater and a field littered with scraps of metal. Twelve feet down in the brown earth: the remains of the big engine. Of the pilot: only little red lumps, half a shoe, scraps of clothing, part of a watch strap.
A check with control proved it could only be Dack. There had been no enemy activity all day, so he hadn’t been shot down. The cause of his death might always be a mystery, because there wasn’t enough left of his machine to give the technical experts a clue.
But the Aviation Medical people solved it. They found a piece of Dack’s liver and analysed the contents: enough carbon monoxide to kill an elephant.
Probably something had gone wrong with the Boffins little box. Instead of trapping the fumes it must have pumped out enough to make the pilot pass out."
Dream Buster, If it wasn't for your well known but, who knows, possibly absolutely justified fixation, that would have been a great little homily.
Not knocking your crusade - I admire whistle blowers - really!. I just don't know!
Intruder, Yes, a while since I flew the 74 and, although not averse to making comment did leave that stuff to the FE. Remind me - could you do it by stuffing hot air from a starter into the manifold?
Without climbing into the loft or, more simply (and probably ineffectually) looking at my old notes in the study I cannot remember.
(Ask me about building, insulating and trying to reduce humidity in a workshop and I'm now more up to date )
Not knocking your crusade - I admire whistle blowers - really!. I just don't know!
Intruder, Yes, a while since I flew the 74 and, although not averse to making comment did leave that stuff to the FE. Remind me - could you do it by stuffing hot air from a starter into the manifold?
Without climbing into the loft or, more simply (and probably ineffectually) looking at my old notes in the study I cannot remember.
(Ask me about building, insulating and trying to reduce humidity in a workshop and I'm now more up to date
)
air-conditioning.
The 3 air-conditioning packs on a 747 are in the middle of the fuselage, just ahead of the body-gears (inner pair). The heat from these is quite significant but more so is the noise.. All the noise you hear from a 747 as you board is from the air-con packs. The APU is too far away at the rear and only bothers the loaders and toilet service jocks!
OSH regs may have required the air-con packs to be off.
No reason for not using an air-con cart or bridge-air though.
OSH regs may have required the air-con packs to be off.
No reason for not using an air-con cart or bridge-air though.
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Quote:
"It gives passengers no comfort that they appear to put cost-cutting in favour of safety."
So say the SLF that clamour for the cheapest fare...
Sorry all, but as SLF I am getting tired of hearing people say all we want is the cheapest fare. Some yes, many no. Many of us care about safety and quality. Personally I rarely ever pay the lowest fare available for a trip and there are many airlines I will not fly. To all people on this site, please stop insulting ALL passengers by saying all we ALL want a cheap flight.
"It gives passengers no comfort that they appear to put cost-cutting in favour of safety."
So say the SLF that clamour for the cheapest fare...
Sorry all, but as SLF I am getting tired of hearing people say all we want is the cheapest fare. Some yes, many no. Many of us care about safety and quality. Personally I rarely ever pay the lowest fare available for a trip and there are many airlines I will not fly. To all people on this site, please stop insulting ALL passengers by saying all we ALL want a cheap flight.
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This is all very interesting. Travel of any kind, for many, is stress inducing, and getting on an airplane, where you literally put your life into the hands of many unknown and unseen people, only ratchets up the stress even more. People generally don't behave as well as they might when under stress, and there's no way of telling when someone might snap. And so I would think every flight has the potential to become quite unruly when things don't go according to plan. Delays are bad enough to get many people irritated and grumpy, but when you then add smoke and abrupt flight maneuvers panic isn't far away. Lack of information only makes matters worse, leaving too much to the imagination. Passengers, in general, are not well versed in airline procedures and are seeking reassurance.
In my reading of this article, this was all just a bad day for the airline and the crew and the passengers. I also suspect the article was written while the event was still quite fresh in the reporter's mind and emotions were still quite traumatized. In this kind of state, it's easy to want to vent, and the airline is the biggest target. Logic has nothing to do with it. While perhaps no one at the airline or in the crew did anything wrong, it appears they may have missed opportunities to keep the passengers informed and lower their anxiety.
In my reading of this article, this was all just a bad day for the airline and the crew and the passengers. I also suspect the article was written while the event was still quite fresh in the reporter's mind and emotions were still quite traumatized. In this kind of state, it's easy to want to vent, and the airline is the biggest target. Logic has nothing to do with it. While perhaps no one at the airline or in the crew did anything wrong, it appears they may have missed opportunities to keep the passengers informed and lower their anxiety.
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Passenger's 'Rights'
Passenger exposure to fumes - Right to know?:
Aviation: Air Quality: 28 Jun 2011: Hansard Written Answers and Statements - TheyWorkForYou
The known health effects of a fume event flight:
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/do...s/RMontmay.pdf
Aviation: Air Quality: 28 Jun 2011: Hansard Written Answers and Statements - TheyWorkForYou
The known health effects of a fume event flight:
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/do...s/RMontmay.pdf
