FAA Grounds 787s
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Well, this is a new one..
the manufacturer of the beacon, Honeywell, has been brought into the mix on the Ethiopian 787 fire.
"A key supplier on Boeing Co.’s 787 Dreamliner passenger jet has confirmed it has joined the ongoing investigation into a fire that broke out last week on an Ethiopian Airlines aircraft parked at London’s Heathrow Airport.
Honeywell International Inc. makes the plane’s emergency locator transmitter, which is a device installed on all commercial airplanes. Known as an ELT, it transmits signals in an emergency. So if a plane is involved in a crash, the transmitter will alert search parties to its location."
Wouldnt that be poetic?
the manufacturer of the beacon, Honeywell, has been brought into the mix on the Ethiopian 787 fire.
"A key supplier on Boeing Co.’s 787 Dreamliner passenger jet has confirmed it has joined the ongoing investigation into a fire that broke out last week on an Ethiopian Airlines aircraft parked at London’s Heathrow Airport.
Honeywell International Inc. makes the plane’s emergency locator transmitter, which is a device installed on all commercial airplanes. Known as an ELT, it transmits signals in an emergency. So if a plane is involved in a crash, the transmitter will alert search parties to its location."
Wouldnt that be poetic?
Last edited by UAVop; 15th Jul 2013 at 22:22.
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UAVop Maybe the investigators look to PPRuNe for ideas 
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post7937429
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post7937429
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Rain in the plane being looked at as cause for beacon fire and other electrical problems...
HIGHER HUMIDITY
While the UK report focused on the beacon made by U.S. conglomerate Honeywell, aviation experts said there could also be issues with the 787's higher humidity or other environmental factors. Water can conduct electricity, so high moisture levels could increase the likelihood of short circuits.
"The investigators are looking at everything, humidity, condensation and ... how things are installed. It's a comprehensive effort," said one industry source.
Boeing's new plane has a relatively high humidity, which helps keeps passengers more comfortable, and investigators are now looking at whether there is enough insulation to prevent moisture from condensing and short circuiting systems such as the beacon, said the source, who was not authorized to speak publicly.
A source close to Boeing, speaking on condition that he not be named, said the 787 may need better isolation of electrical components from the plane's high humidity, something industry people refer to as "rain in the plane."
Analysts said they were watching for further developments.
HIGHER HUMIDITY
While the UK report focused on the beacon made by U.S. conglomerate Honeywell, aviation experts said there could also be issues with the 787's higher humidity or other environmental factors. Water can conduct electricity, so high moisture levels could increase the likelihood of short circuits.
"The investigators are looking at everything, humidity, condensation and ... how things are installed. It's a comprehensive effort," said one industry source.
Boeing's new plane has a relatively high humidity, which helps keeps passengers more comfortable, and investigators are now looking at whether there is enough insulation to prevent moisture from condensing and short circuiting systems such as the beacon, said the source, who was not authorized to speak publicly.
A source close to Boeing, speaking on condition that he not be named, said the 787 may need better isolation of electrical components from the plane's high humidity, something industry people refer to as "rain in the plane."
Analysts said they were watching for further developments.
In fact, water, especially distilled water resulting from "rain", is a very poor conductor. The elt runs at low voltages as well and the chance of any serious current flowing from condensate are negligable.
If you have a Fluke or similar multimeter, try measuring the resistance of a glass of boiled water from the kettle, say with the probes at a cm spacing, to get an idea.
Again, all this smells of misinformation, un-named sources being given publicity which is then spouted by the media as possible cause, may be just a smoke screen to hide the real problem.
FX: That;'s ok, it was the coffee maker; no, forgot, no ac power; that won't wash; Ok, elt will do for now. Problem solved...
If you have a Fluke or similar multimeter, try measuring the resistance of a glass of boiled water from the kettle, say with the probes at a cm spacing, to get an idea.
Again, all this smells of misinformation, un-named sources being given publicity which is then spouted by the media as possible cause, may be just a smoke screen to hide the real problem.
FX: That;'s ok, it was the coffee maker; no, forgot, no ac power; that won't wash; Ok, elt will do for now. Problem solved...
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Excuse me butting in here but I understand the ELT runs off a lithium battery?
We are expected to provide a recycling point for lithium batteries (in our retail shop) and the safety advise even on used lithium batteries is that both ends - +ve and -ve - must be covered with insulating tape.
All that to say, lithium batteries need careful handling, so I wonder if that's being taken into consideration by the maintenance crews?
Just saying......!
We are expected to provide a recycling point for lithium batteries (in our retail shop) and the safety advise even on used lithium batteries is that both ends - +ve and -ve - must be covered with insulating tape.
All that to say, lithium batteries need careful handling, so I wonder if that's being taken into consideration by the maintenance crews?
Just saying......!
Dancingdog.
You have read this thread...haven't you?
You have read this thread...haven't you?
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There is an Air India 787 oven smoke report on the social media.
https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/360478149814910977
https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/360478149814910977
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Dreamliners operated by Air India experienced smoke from overheated oven according to airline.
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From ATN news this morning :
NTSB PROVIDES UPDATE ON BOEING 787 BATTERY FIRE INVESTIGATION
Source: NTSB
08/01/2014
The investigative work into the Jan. 7, 2013, fire aboard a Japan Airlines Boeing 787 at Logan International Airport in Boston, is estimated to be completed by the end of March, the National Transportation Safety Board said today. The analytical and report writing phase of the investigation will follow the completion of the investigative activities. The final report is expected to be presented to the Board at a public meeting in Washington in the fall.
Members of the investigative team have been conducting work in the United States, Japan, France, and Taiwan. As the investigation has progressed, the NTSB has been working closely with Boeing, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Japan Transport Safety Bureau, the French BEA, and technical advisors from Japan and France.
Some of the investigative activities include:
- Completed disassembly and documentation of the individual cells of the incident battery.
- Completed examinations of exemplar batteries and battery cells for baseline reference and comparison to the incident battery. These examinations were conducted at NTSB and independent laboratories and included computed tomography scans, non-destructive soft short testing, and destructive evaluation and analysis of the batteries and cells.
- Awarded a contract to Underwriter’s Laboratories to assist the NTSB in defining and performing system-level tests of the Boeing 787 battery and charging system. The testing includes characterization of the thermal and electrochemical properties of the battery and oscillatory testing and is expected to be completed in February.
- Radiographic studies, which included over 200,000 CT scan images, were conducted to examine and document the internal configuration of individual cells from the incident and exemplar batteries.
- Conducted interviews with FAA, Boeing, Thales, and GS Yuasa personnel to review and document key steps, personnel roles and responsibilities, data and information flow, design artifacts, and approvals in the certification process for the battery and charging system.
- Evaluated and documented the process for the battery system safety assessment, including a review of the supporting tests and analysis performed and the safety analysis standards relevant for lithium-ion batteries.
- Conducted on-site survey of battery manufacturing facility in Japan including a review of design, engineering, and production documentation, as well as manufacturing processes, procedures, and training for personnel involved in the manufacture of the battery.
The date of the Board meeting at which the findings of the investigation will be released, including the probable cause of the battery fire, will be announced later in the year.
All of the information and resources the NTSB has released for this investigation can be accessed from the following page: Accident Investigations - Boeing 787.
NTSB PROVIDES UPDATE ON BOEING 787 BATTERY FIRE INVESTIGATION
Source: NTSB
08/01/2014
The investigative work into the Jan. 7, 2013, fire aboard a Japan Airlines Boeing 787 at Logan International Airport in Boston, is estimated to be completed by the end of March, the National Transportation Safety Board said today. The analytical and report writing phase of the investigation will follow the completion of the investigative activities. The final report is expected to be presented to the Board at a public meeting in Washington in the fall.
Members of the investigative team have been conducting work in the United States, Japan, France, and Taiwan. As the investigation has progressed, the NTSB has been working closely with Boeing, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Japan Transport Safety Bureau, the French BEA, and technical advisors from Japan and France.
Some of the investigative activities include:
- Completed disassembly and documentation of the individual cells of the incident battery.
- Completed examinations of exemplar batteries and battery cells for baseline reference and comparison to the incident battery. These examinations were conducted at NTSB and independent laboratories and included computed tomography scans, non-destructive soft short testing, and destructive evaluation and analysis of the batteries and cells.
- Awarded a contract to Underwriter’s Laboratories to assist the NTSB in defining and performing system-level tests of the Boeing 787 battery and charging system. The testing includes characterization of the thermal and electrochemical properties of the battery and oscillatory testing and is expected to be completed in February.
- Radiographic studies, which included over 200,000 CT scan images, were conducted to examine and document the internal configuration of individual cells from the incident and exemplar batteries.
- Conducted interviews with FAA, Boeing, Thales, and GS Yuasa personnel to review and document key steps, personnel roles and responsibilities, data and information flow, design artifacts, and approvals in the certification process for the battery and charging system.
- Evaluated and documented the process for the battery system safety assessment, including a review of the supporting tests and analysis performed and the safety analysis standards relevant for lithium-ion batteries.
- Conducted on-site survey of battery manufacturing facility in Japan including a review of design, engineering, and production documentation, as well as manufacturing processes, procedures, and training for personnel involved in the manufacture of the battery.
The date of the Board meeting at which the findings of the investigation will be released, including the probable cause of the battery fire, will be announced later in the year.
All of the information and resources the NTSB has released for this investigation can be accessed from the following page: Accident Investigations - Boeing 787.
JAL have been having more problems with batteries.
(Reuters) - Japan Airlines said it temporarily grounded one of its 787 Dreamliners on Tuesday after white smoke was spotted outside the plane, warning lights in the cockpit indicated possible faults with the main battery and charger, and one battery cell appeared to be leaking.
Boeing Co said it was "aware of the 787 issue that occurred Tuesday afternoon at Narita, which appears to have involved the venting of a single battery cell. "
The incident comes nearly a year to the day after Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways grounded their 787 fleets after two 787 batteries overheated on two different planes in less than two weeks.
Global regulators grounded the worldwide fleet on January 16, 2013. The planes remained grounded for more than three months while Boeing redesigned the battery, charger and containment system to ensure battery fires would not put the airplane at risk. The cause of the battery problems has not been determined.
On Tuesday, Japan Airlines said maintenance engineers who were in the cockpit saw white smoke from the cockpit. When they went outside the aircraft the smoke had dispersed.
On returning to the cockpit the engineers found warning lights indicating possible faults with the main battery and charger. When checking the battery they found one of the eight cells to be active with a liquid coming out.
The plane, due to depart from Tokyo Narita airport for Bangkok, was taken out of service and the 158 passengers due to board the plane were put aboard a separate 787, JAL said.
(Reuters) - Japan Airlines said it temporarily grounded one of its 787 Dreamliners on Tuesday after white smoke was spotted outside the plane, warning lights in the cockpit indicated possible faults with the main battery and charger, and one battery cell appeared to be leaking.
Boeing Co said it was "aware of the 787 issue that occurred Tuesday afternoon at Narita, which appears to have involved the venting of a single battery cell. "
The incident comes nearly a year to the day after Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways grounded their 787 fleets after two 787 batteries overheated on two different planes in less than two weeks.
Global regulators grounded the worldwide fleet on January 16, 2013. The planes remained grounded for more than three months while Boeing redesigned the battery, charger and containment system to ensure battery fires would not put the airplane at risk. The cause of the battery problems has not been determined.
On Tuesday, Japan Airlines said maintenance engineers who were in the cockpit saw white smoke from the cockpit. When they went outside the aircraft the smoke had dispersed.
On returning to the cockpit the engineers found warning lights indicating possible faults with the main battery and charger. When checking the battery they found one of the eight cells to be active with a liquid coming out.
The plane, due to depart from Tokyo Narita airport for Bangkok, was taken out of service and the 158 passengers due to board the plane were put aboard a separate 787, JAL said.
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JAL Dreamliner in new battery incident
Rumours have reached me in regards to a Dreamliner from JAL undergoing maintenance has suffered from a Thermal battery issue today. Details are coming through slowly but it appears the containment systems have worked I am trying my upmost to find out which aircraft it is
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So the battery containment system works, but the batteries keep failing even after Boeing introduced a higher standard of batteries.
I am really happy I'm not flying this wonderbird. And there is no way you will see me as a passenger on one.
Never mind the "made in China" spoilers cracking, but anything close to a fire on an aircraft scares me to death.
I am really happy I'm not flying this wonderbird. And there is no way you will see me as a passenger on one.
Never mind the "made in China" spoilers cracking, but anything close to a fire on an aircraft scares me to death.
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I love how pilots talk out their ass about being happy not to be flying this or that, and if the opportunity presents itself they don't walk towards it, they run...!
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Yes Dominican, old human nature .....
On the other hand ,looking at the cnn link provided by Yancey Slide , I initially thought looking at the top photo of the Battery vent , that the painted text was a humorous photoshop image, but from the legend underneath it would seem it is real.
Good choice of words to induce confidence !
On the other hand ,looking at the cnn link provided by Yancey Slide , I initially thought looking at the top photo of the Battery vent , that the painted text was a humorous photoshop image, but from the legend underneath it would seem it is real.
Good choice of words to induce confidence !