FAA Grounds 787s
Joined: Dec 2013
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From: Paso Robles
I suspect that Boeing will care
Al Jazeera does Qatar's government bidding so we should wait for Qatar Airways to trim its order of 30 787s (they received 15 so far if I am not mistaken), somehow I don't think it will happen, airlines wouldn't be in business long if they followed mass media, if there is anything they care about is stuff they may read in trade magazines like say AW&ST, etc, not in generally hysterical and headline driven mass media. A very opinionated and known for its criticism of Airbus or Boeing Qatar Airways' CEO 'his excellency' Mr. Akbar Al Baker just two days ago stood in front of the media and said was delighted introducing his "flagship 787" aircraft on Doha-Vienna route.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: se england
A few very myopic opinions about Al Jazeera here. I am sure the Media folks at Airbus and Boeing will be very concerned since Al Jazeera reaches a far wider audience than Pprune and bad news whoever carries it or spins it is never good.
Al Jazeera is, like all news organisations biased, but to a huge number of people in an important part of the world it is seen as far more credible than most US based news stations ,especially the likes of Fox .
So, to say that no one cares what Al Jazeera broadcasts is pretty silly, since it reaches a huge audience and even 'industry professionals' should care because they should be aware what is misreported or exaggerated and counter that.
Just a little morning rant, sorry
Al Jazeera is, like all news organisations biased, but to a huge number of people in an important part of the world it is seen as far more credible than most US based news stations ,especially the likes of Fox .
So, to say that no one cares what Al Jazeera broadcasts is pretty silly, since it reaches a huge audience and even 'industry professionals' should care because they should be aware what is misreported or exaggerated and counter that.
Just a little morning rant, sorry
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Seattle
manrow
One of the battery fixes was to tighten up the charge/discharge limits in the firmware. Its possible that this may have made some difference in subsequent 'eventful' failures. The type that make it here and onto the nightly news. On the other hand, battery lockouts and maintenance removals may (or may not) have gone up, down or sideways. We may never know. And the price of the fix might be more frequent replacements. I'm no longer in a position to see this data.
Heck, when I was in the electrical design group at Boeing, we didn't have access to this data. Occasionally the
would hit the fan and we'd be told to redesign something. But absent that, there's probably someone in maintenance engineering plotting this stuff on a graph and submitting it in a quarterly report. Where it gets filed in that same warehouse that Indiana Jones' Ark of the Covenant was stored.
lack of current B787 reports on Rumours and News
Heck, when I was in the electrical design group at Boeing, we didn't have access to this data. Occasionally the
would hit the fan and we'd be told to redesign something. But absent that, there's probably someone in maintenance engineering plotting this stuff on a graph and submitting it in a quarterly report. Where it gets filed in that same warehouse that Indiana Jones' Ark of the Covenant was stored.
Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Everett, WA
EEngr, dispatch reliability remains an area of concern - it's gotten better (over 98% last time I checked) but the target is over 99% so there is still work to do.
I see the 21.3 reports for all Boeing aircraft, and for the 787 they appear to be dominated by the APU and the VFSG (Variable Speed Starter Generators for those who don't speak 'Boeing'). The batteries appear to be doing OK.
BTW, last week there was a "lunch and learn" presentation on the Ethiopian fire damage repair at Heathrow - I would have loved to attend. Unfortunately I had a flight test that day and missed it
I see the 21.3 reports for all Boeing aircraft, and for the 787 they appear to be dominated by the APU and the VFSG (Variable Speed Starter Generators for those who don't speak 'Boeing'). The batteries appear to be doing OK.
BTW, last week there was a "lunch and learn" presentation on the Ethiopian fire damage repair at Heathrow - I would have loved to attend. Unfortunately I had a flight test that day and missed it
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: lgw
Moderators
Surely this thread is now finished.
The aircraft has been flying for over a year now since the problems that occurred that are related to this thread.
Please lock it and we can start a realistic thread title as most of the posts are just not related to the issue that originally occurred.
Surely this thread is now finished.
The aircraft has been flying for over a year now since the problems that occurred that are related to this thread.
Please lock it and we can start a realistic thread title as most of the posts are just not related to the issue that originally occurred.
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: GLCY
It hasn't aired yet, Scheduled 10th Sep 20:00 GMT.
I've seen a trailer and they've got quite a lot of what appear to be staff on camera saying they wouldn't fly in the plane. While I appreciate that all tv networks edit their material to suit the objective AJ is probably providing the best International News Coverage of any of the networks at the moment IMHO (and I include the BBC in that statement).
I've seen a trailer and they've got quite a lot of what appear to be staff on camera saying they wouldn't fly in the plane. While I appreciate that all tv networks edit their material to suit the objective AJ is probably providing the best International News Coverage of any of the networks at the moment IMHO (and I include the BBC in that statement).
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Seattle
tdracer
Are they reporting single power system failures now? Or collecting extra data for the 787 batteries as an interim check on the status of the fix perhaps?
To keep dispatch reliability numbers up, I figured that 787 operators might be getting really good at swapping batteries within the 15 minute departure delay window.
the 21.3 reports for all Boeing aircraft, and for the 787 ..... The batteries appear to be doing OK.
To keep dispatch reliability numbers up, I figured that 787 operators might be getting really good at swapping batteries within the 15 minute departure delay window.
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From: Oakland, CA
[ I figured that 787 operators might be getting really good at swapping batteries
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From: Japan
Battery swapping was quite common in the early months at ANA and JAL, almost routine, until runaway problems really began to appear.
Since the subsequent patches and improvements, the news blanket has been so heavy that I doubt such things would make it into the press. I have no idea whether or not batteries are being swapped out during routine checks, but my gut feeling is that such a culture would surely be encouraged, and any suspect batteries would be swiftly sent off for analysis in order to help refine the science.
Since the subsequent patches and improvements, the news blanket has been so heavy that I doubt such things would make it into the press. I have no idea whether or not batteries are being swapped out during routine checks, but my gut feeling is that such a culture would surely be encouraged, and any suspect batteries would be swiftly sent off for analysis in order to help refine the science.
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From: California/Philippines
They posted the documentary on their YouTube account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkE...NL5ZzHSJj3l8Bg
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From: PA
"A pivotal part of the program is footage captured by an employee with a hidden camera, recording colleagues discussing the plants hiring of unskilled workers, drug use among employees, slipshod workmanship and inadequate inspections.
This same (anonymous) employee asks 15 of is co-workers if they would fly on the Dreamliner planes. Ten of them say they would not, with one replying we're not building them to fly. We're building them to sell. You know what I'm saying?
Drug use is another focal point of the documentary with allegations that marijuana, cocaine and prescription painkillers are all frequently consumed at the factory.
These safety concerns by staff in the South Carolina factory throw up some big questions about aviation safety in general."
This same (anonymous) employee asks 15 of is co-workers if they would fly on the Dreamliner planes. Ten of them say they would not, with one replying we're not building them to fly. We're building them to sell. You know what I'm saying?
Drug use is another focal point of the documentary with allegations that marijuana, cocaine and prescription painkillers are all frequently consumed at the factory.
These safety concerns by staff in the South Carolina factory throw up some big questions about aviation safety in general."
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From: What day is it?
Well I've just seen it, and from my standpoint as an engineer and pilot who's just about to convert to type I found it disquieting. Bottom line, it's not really a Boeing, at least not in the way that Boeing made it's reputation and we all take for granted. I was planning to see my airline days out on it, now I'm not so sure.
I know that some people don't like AJ but unless you've seen this piece you're in no position to comment on it. I can't stand the usual hyperbolic, sensationalist, scaremongering that mostly passes for journalism, but this documentary didn't really seem like that to me. Yes there were some holes and slightly misleading bits, but overall it seemed as good a piece from a non specialist team as I've seen.
At least our first ship is coming from Everett.
I know that some people don't like AJ but unless you've seen this piece you're in no position to comment on it. I can't stand the usual hyperbolic, sensationalist, scaremongering that mostly passes for journalism, but this documentary didn't really seem like that to me. Yes there were some holes and slightly misleading bits, but overall it seemed as good a piece from a non specialist team as I've seen.
At least our first ship is coming from Everett.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: London
The idea that Al-J is some sort of sensationalist media outlet is slightly ridiculous when you consider how many of their staff are formerly of news organisations such as BBC, CNN, CBS and so on from a time when those organisations were producing decent journalism (unlike today).
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From: Hostage to geographical fortune.
Bottom line, it's not really a Boeing, at least not in the way that Boeing made it's reputation and we all take for granted
Moving the assembly line south is pure union busting - demographics will probably dictate that the build quality takes a hit. The seamless conduit from the business of government oversight to corporate lobbying also raises a flag.
A risky business. It'll only take one inflight hull loss through structural failure or battery fire to ground the lot.
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From: Everett, WA
The idea that Al-J is some sort of sensationalist media outlet is slightly ridiculous when you consider how many of their staff are formerly of news organisations such as BBC, CNN, CBS and so on from a time when those organisations were producing decent journalism (unlike today).
When I was young and naive I thought TV news was gospel - then I started watching some "in depth" reporting (e.g. CBS 60 Minutes) on subjects that I had first hand knowledge. Without exception it was sensationalist, biased crap. Everybody on TV has an agenda, and if the facts don't fit the agenda, they just leave them out (and often make up new 'facts').
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From: Potomac Heights
While I cannot opine on the level of intentional bias in news reporting, one should remember that reporters are typically rather inexpert on the subjects they report. As a result, they commonly state things inaccurately.
If you want to run a personal test of this -- just attend a local council or zoning board meeting and listen carefully to what goes on. Then read your local newspaper's recounting of that meeting. You will often wonder whether you and the reporter were in the same room.
If you want to run a personal test of this -- just attend a local council or zoning board meeting and listen carefully to what goes on. Then read your local newspaper's recounting of that meeting. You will often wonder whether you and the reporter were in the same room.