Seat pitch 34" minimum reasonable says Judge!
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ranger one, reverserunlocked,
>>'I paid (say) $450 for this NYC-LHR return and I get a poxy 31" seat. Why doesn't some smart company offer 62" in economy? Double the pitch, halve the number of seats, double the fare - I'd pay $900 for that. I don't want first/business service, food, baggage allowance - I just want enough pitch to fully recline the seat!' "
Just looking at fares for JFK-LHR return - there could be some businessman who paid not $900, but $1,200 for the privilege of sitting in that very same 31"seat/class as the guy who paid $450 (actually $427..)! The not-so-fat-cat's only problem is that he wanted to return in two days whereas $450 punter is staying in London for 2 weeks.
After the dot-com excesses - this is why a lot of business travel is being either postponed, consolidated into longer trips or avoided totally- a last minute US East-West Coast fare for a mid-week trip is around $2,200 - in coach!
>>'I paid (say) $450 for this NYC-LHR return and I get a poxy 31" seat. Why doesn't some smart company offer 62" in economy? Double the pitch, halve the number of seats, double the fare - I'd pay $900 for that. I don't want first/business service, food, baggage allowance - I just want enough pitch to fully recline the seat!' "
Just looking at fares for JFK-LHR return - there could be some businessman who paid not $900, but $1,200 for the privilege of sitting in that very same 31"seat/class as the guy who paid $450 (actually $427..)! The not-so-fat-cat's only problem is that he wanted to return in two days whereas $450 punter is staying in London for 2 weeks.
After the dot-com excesses - this is why a lot of business travel is being either postponed, consolidated into longer trips or avoided totally- a last minute US East-West Coast fare for a mid-week trip is around $2,200 - in coach!
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I was in SFO on business and was told to return to NYC for 2 days to help close a deal. The cost was to be $2300. I used our route deal with VS and flew SFO-LHR-JFK-LHR-SFO to prove a point. The whole fare in Premium Economy for SFO sections and Eco for Eco was $2000.
The US public are robbed, but that is cos of the unions. Dont belive me - Wingwalkers - you dont get them in LHR
The US public are robbed, but that is cos of the unions. Dont belive me - Wingwalkers - you dont get them in LHR
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Let's hope more operators go the way of Airtours and start offering 'premium' seating but at more realistic prices.
On a short hop you can put up with your knees being in your face. You don't mind having to shell out for drinks and snacks because you know that when you get to Amserdam, Nice or Rome or wherever you can spend the cash you saved on the ticket on pot or hookers, or in overpriced trattoria with rude staff where you get no change.
But six hours or more is a long time to have ar%se ache and I'd gladly pay another few hundred quid to get a bit more space.
As I said before, travelling to Beirut I had two fare options; £300 (knees in face) or £3000 (too much space)...
So two of us in business would have cost 6 grand, for which I could have bought a quarter of a terraced house in Liverpool, or a brand new Peruda Nippa motor car, a Bang and Olufsen stereo or one hell of a pub crawl...for two tickets to a city not even two thousand miles away.
Madness.
On a short hop you can put up with your knees being in your face. You don't mind having to shell out for drinks and snacks because you know that when you get to Amserdam, Nice or Rome or wherever you can spend the cash you saved on the ticket on pot or hookers, or in overpriced trattoria with rude staff where you get no change.
But six hours or more is a long time to have ar%se ache and I'd gladly pay another few hundred quid to get a bit more space.
As I said before, travelling to Beirut I had two fare options; £300 (knees in face) or £3000 (too much space)...
So two of us in business would have cost 6 grand, for which I could have bought a quarter of a terraced house in Liverpool, or a brand new Peruda Nippa motor car, a Bang and Olufsen stereo or one hell of a pub crawl...for two tickets to a city not even two thousand miles away.
Madness.
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I have just been to BA's website to look at their fares for a week in New York(JFK) commencing 1/6. I looked at three fares. Cheapest Economy(WT) was £451.5 per ticket, inclusive. Fully flexible Economy(WT) was £873.5. Then surprise, surprise, World Traveller Plus came in at £748.5, in the upgraded cabin! What's going on?
To create the WT+ cabin in the 747-400, they appear to have removed about 72 economy seats, and replaced them with 36 WT+ seats. Using the ticket prices above, they seem to be losing at least £5.5 revenue on a full house. Am I missing something?
Reverse....
It should be possible to get a Business Class return on BMed non-stop, for just over £2k, no restrictions.
How flexible can you be? With some of the other European carriers - KL, LH and AF, you should be able to get a Club
Class fare for about £1k with one-stop and some restrictions, but would it be "full" club configuration on this route?
To create the WT+ cabin in the 747-400, they appear to have removed about 72 economy seats, and replaced them with 36 WT+ seats. Using the ticket prices above, they seem to be losing at least £5.5 revenue on a full house. Am I missing something?
Reverse....
It should be possible to get a Business Class return on BMed non-stop, for just over £2k, no restrictions.
How flexible can you be? With some of the other European carriers - KL, LH and AF, you should be able to get a Club
Class fare for about £1k with one-stop and some restrictions, but would it be "full" club configuration on this route?
Last edited by newswatcher; 18th Apr 2002 at 13:49.
Gareth Edwards obviously felt we all need 34" - because he has thighs like hams from his previous career as a world-class rugby player!
My legs have just about recovered from an Air2K flight 10 days ago from INN, when seat pitch must have been c. 29". It all boils down to - you get what you pay for.
The answer has to be better dislosure. If you ask a tour operator (particulalrly a non-integrated one) they are unlikely to be able to tell you the seat pitch you will be suffering. Scheduled operators should have the information in their timetables. Then it all becomes Caveat Emptor .
My legs have just about recovered from an Air2K flight 10 days ago from INN, when seat pitch must have been c. 29". It all boils down to - you get what you pay for.
The answer has to be better dislosure. If you ask a tour operator (particulalrly a non-integrated one) they are unlikely to be able to tell you the seat pitch you will be suffering. Scheduled operators should have the information in their timetables. Then it all becomes Caveat Emptor .
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Look before you limp
Here are a few sites which have seat pitch information. Unfortunately some of the data differs between sites for the same carrier. You will have to make a judgement as to which you believe!
http://www.uk-air.net/seatpitch.htm
http://www.airlinequality.com/Product/seat_intro.htm
http://www.cheapflights.com/misc/legroom_report.html
http://www.gatewayonline.net/compare/Compare/long.html
http://www.bugbog.com/travel_health/...s.html#legroom
http://www.uk-air.net/seatpitch.htm
http://www.airlinequality.com/Product/seat_intro.htm
http://www.cheapflights.com/misc/legroom_report.html
http://www.gatewayonline.net/compare/Compare/long.html
http://www.bugbog.com/travel_health/...s.html#legroom
Just a numbered other
All the time joe public thinks it reasonable to expect a cheaper fare to fly from Birmingham to Spain than to get a train to London, or to park their car at the airport for a couple of days, they will get what they deserve.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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The problem with premium seats on charter flight out of the UK is that Gordon Brown deems them to be a business class equivalent and slaps a higher tax on them.
I think the figures are an extra £30 tax on a ticket sold at a £40 premium for flights within Europe.
So much about caring about the health of the nation. Gordon is only interested in extracting money from your wallet.
I think the figures are an extra £30 tax on a ticket sold at a £40 premium for flights within Europe.
So much about caring about the health of the nation. Gordon is only interested in extracting money from your wallet.
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In the interest of European social justice, why not mandate a selection of seat pitches for different body sizes. Really fat guys need the wide seats, while the skinny short ones get the 26" seat pitch. After all, it's not fair that if you're fat or tall that you should be more uncomfortable than a short skinny guy, nor should you pay more. "To each according to his needs" May 1st is coming up! Get out those red flags and words to International.
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Sorry that I have said this before but...
Of course you get what you pay for, but some of the numbers don't seem to add up.
If the tightest Economy pitch is 28" and the best 34", the difference is about 20% - ergo a 20% fare hike should leave revenue neutral.
In reality the punter is left with the option of paying 2 or 3 times more to get a bit of space.
Of course you get what you pay for, but some of the numbers don't seem to add up.
If the tightest Economy pitch is 28" and the best 34", the difference is about 20% - ergo a 20% fare hike should leave revenue neutral.
In reality the punter is left with the option of paying 2 or 3 times more to get a bit of space.
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Flew LHR-YYZ for a week's skiing in January. Total cost was about GBP600, including:
return Y-class flights on AC
6 nights half-board at Banff Springs
car transfers from YYC airport to Banff
OK, mid-Jan it was fcukin' brass monkeys, but the snow was amazing (70cm fell during the week) and AC is fighting with CX for the best cattle-class I've ever experienced (and I'm a gold FF).
So... if this chap has paid over four grand, my reckoning says he's entitled to more than 29 inches. There's little more discouraging than fronting up to your seat, strapping in and having your knees touch the other seat before you even push back. You get what you pay for, sure, but less than 30 inches is a bit rich.
return Y-class flights on AC
6 nights half-board at Banff Springs
car transfers from YYC airport to Banff
OK, mid-Jan it was fcukin' brass monkeys, but the snow was amazing (70cm fell during the week) and AC is fighting with CX for the best cattle-class I've ever experienced (and I'm a gold FF).
So... if this chap has paid over four grand, my reckoning says he's entitled to more than 29 inches. There's little more discouraging than fronting up to your seat, strapping in and having your knees touch the other seat before you even push back. You get what you pay for, sure, but less than 30 inches is a bit rich.
No matter how much they might whinge, airlines should be b£oody well forced to provide a minimum of 34" pitch on flights of more than 2 hours. For less than that it should be no less than 31". End of argument. Period.
Come to think of it, I can think of other things for which a minimum measurement of 34" would be appropriate. 34B preferably.....
Come to think of it, I can think of other things for which a minimum measurement of 34" would be appropriate. 34B preferably.....
Beagle,
agreed, especially with your second point - my wife told her mother yesterday that I thought she should be tattoed "Front" and "Back" (We've been married over 31 years). I suggested it should be in braille so I don't have to put the light on
On your first point, until that ideal state is reached, I don't mind paying extra for more space in long haul, if I can afford it. A few years ago we went skiing at Lake Louise in Canada and paid (I think) an extra £150 each for club class seats with economy class service on the leg from Manchester to Toronto and back. Well worth the extra, the food and the service were excellent.
agreed, especially with your second point - my wife told her mother yesterday that I thought she should be tattoed "Front" and "Back" (We've been married over 31 years). I suggested it should be in braille so I don't have to put the light on
On your first point, until that ideal state is reached, I don't mind paying extra for more space in long haul, if I can afford it. A few years ago we went skiing at Lake Louise in Canada and paid (I think) an extra £150 each for club class seats with economy class service on the leg from Manchester to Toronto and back. Well worth the extra, the food and the service were excellent.
