Aircraft Crash in Moscow
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Kulverstukas
I get the 7M from the link. It may be the original cost, a repair may be less.
My point is that it is not cheap, and I have misgivings about its use anyway.
Better e well engineered runway from the git go, than an expensive band aide to keep a dangerous situation operant.
Disclaimer. I no longer have access to researchers and writing staff. Take all info from me, (everyone?) with some caution.
Anonymous forum, and all that.
I get the 7M from the link. It may be the original cost, a repair may be less.
My point is that it is not cheap, and I have misgivings about its use anyway.
Better e well engineered runway from the git go, than an expensive band aide to keep a dangerous situation operant.
Disclaimer. I no longer have access to researchers and writing staff. Take all info from me, (everyone?) with some caution.
Anonymous forum, and all that.
EMAS
The FAA has some info: Fact Sheet – Engineered Material Arresting Systems (EMAS)
The cost was reported to be some $4M for the installation at Burbank back in 2006. (Ball Player's Jet Overruns Runway in Burbank - Los Angeles Times)
It seems each concrete block in the bed has a cost of around $1,000.
However I can find no evidence that and EMAS bed is/was installed at Vnukovo airport. The complete list (worldwide) as of Sept 2012 is here (at least this is all I can find): http://www.esco.zodiacaerospace.com/...nstal_List.pdf
The cost was reported to be some $4M for the installation at Burbank back in 2006. (Ball Player's Jet Overruns Runway in Burbank - Los Angeles Times)
It seems each concrete block in the bed has a cost of around $1,000.
However I can find no evidence that and EMAS bed is/was installed at Vnukovo airport. The complete list (worldwide) as of Sept 2012 is here (at least this is all I can find): http://www.esco.zodiacaerospace.com/...nstal_List.pdf
Last edited by GarageYears; 3rd Jan 2013 at 17:34.
Burbank
Here's a picture of the overrun area of runway 08 at Burbank.
BURBANK airport, North Hollywood Way, Burbank, CA, United States - Google Maps
BURBANK airport, North Hollywood Way, Burbank, CA, United States - Google Maps
Last edited by J.O.; 3rd Jan 2013 at 19:16.
Sorry - my previous message was a little unclear - I *know* Burbank has EMAS, I was/am questioning whether Vnukovo has it... I have edited my original post to make my intent clearer.
I believe the following is the end of the runway where the crash occurred but of course I have no date for when the sat image was taken (but it isn't that recent since there is still a lot of construction evident in the pic. However there is clearly no EMAS at the time the pic was taken.
Google Maps
I believe the following is the end of the runway where the crash occurred but of course I have no date for when the sat image was taken (but it isn't that recent since there is still a lot of construction evident in the pic. However there is clearly no EMAS at the time the pic was taken.
Google Maps
Last edited by GarageYears; 3rd Jan 2013 at 17:43.
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The overrun area of runway 08 at Burbank clearly has EMAS.
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I see one EMAS on 08, and not on runway heading. Is EMAS dedicated to prior mayday, as in, "cleared for 08 the EMAS" ?
Does one need to plan for an "in the weeds" arrest? (off heading)
I guess I can see why EMAS is not more universally installed.....
Does one need to plan for an "in the weeds" arrest? (off heading)
I guess I can see why EMAS is not more universally installed.....
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GarageYears, I know no commercial airports in exUSSR which has EMAS of this type. There is military devices (arresters) but I doubt they can be used for commercial aviation.
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Kulverstukas...
Howdy! From Google, I see what is certainly a displaced threshold, seemingly without big white XXXX, on 01.
Is three point five km accurate for usable?
Howdy! From Google, I see what is certainly a displaced threshold, seemingly without big white XXXX, on 01.
Is three point five km accurate for usable?
Ahh... OK, now I see it. The discussion on EMAS was a "what-if" a page or so back. Good. So no EMAS, and probably no need to discuss this further then? If we want to play hypotheticals there are probably better ones to consider.
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Lyman, this one from google is more than an year old, it's still closed at the intersection with RWY 06/24. More conteporary photo is here, at Yandex.
The right engine looks pretty untouched.... any photo of the left engine?
Hi Lyman;
If you zoom in you can see that both areas at Burbank have EMAS (straight off the centreline and to the left). The runway centreline overrun area is a darker colour than the area that's off the centreline to match the colour of the asphalt on the runway. Not sure why but that's how it's set up.
If you zoom in you can see that both areas at Burbank have EMAS (straight off the centreline and to the left). The runway centreline overrun area is a darker colour than the area that's off the centreline to match the colour of the asphalt on the runway. Not sure why but that's how it's set up.
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Thanks JO for the info Burbank, and the vid.
Burbank. I note the distinct grill appearance of the EMAS. You say the system is also installed to and through the centreline? And painted? To mimic the runway surface material?
My guess is that the EMAS is shifted off line to prevent casual contact with aircraft, which would be destructive. I cannot understand why camouflaging the engineered material would help in its use.
IOW a big NO STEP...... Just rolling on this fragile material destroys it. Just as the gravel pits on I 80 take a turn off the highway to ennable, my guess is the EMAS is meant to be used on command, not as a passive "in spite of yourself" stopgap.
Note the collapse of the Nose Gear on the 727 classic. It demonstrates the effectivemess of the system, there is no reason to market it as "also protects Landing gear" So overun, that landing gear can be lost is a given, and the overall effective "arrestment" is remarkable. Also, note the change of heading of the 727. It is imperative that a/c be stopped prior to overrunning the EMAS, to continue, sideways, with missing gear could be catastrophic.
Garage years, my feeling is that all discussion related to the accident and what it may suggest as future mitigation in the interests of safety is exquisitely important. That begs the question.....
Why are you recommending limits to the discussion?
Burbank. I note the distinct grill appearance of the EMAS. You say the system is also installed to and through the centreline? And painted? To mimic the runway surface material?
My guess is that the EMAS is shifted off line to prevent casual contact with aircraft, which would be destructive. I cannot understand why camouflaging the engineered material would help in its use.
IOW a big NO STEP...... Just rolling on this fragile material destroys it. Just as the gravel pits on I 80 take a turn off the highway to ennable, my guess is the EMAS is meant to be used on command, not as a passive "in spite of yourself" stopgap.
Note the collapse of the Nose Gear on the 727 classic. It demonstrates the effectivemess of the system, there is no reason to market it as "also protects Landing gear" So overun, that landing gear can be lost is a given, and the overall effective "arrestment" is remarkable. Also, note the change of heading of the 727. It is imperative that a/c be stopped prior to overrunning the EMAS, to continue, sideways, with missing gear could be catastrophic.
Garage years, my feeling is that all discussion related to the accident and what it may suggest as future mitigation in the interests of safety is exquisitely important. That begs the question.....
Why are you recommending limits to the discussion?
Last edited by Lyman; 3rd Jan 2013 at 19:39.
Pegase Driver
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Overhaed bins falling open on touchdown. Not a very good safety impression.
Relatively long delay between touchdown and reverse deployment. but this can have 100 different explanations.
Relatively long delay between touchdown and reverse deployment. but this can have 100 different explanations.
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Perhaps you missed my multiple posts on this subject. Big differences between engine fan damage although what appears to be similar inlet impacts.
http://www.pprune.org/7607797-post280.html
and this
http://www.pprune.org/7603064-post133.html
But i haven't seen anything more