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Air Bagan Fokker F100 crash in Myanmar city - Burma (Photos included)

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Air Bagan Fokker F100 crash in Myanmar city - Burma (Photos included)

Old 27th Dec 2012, 11:21
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How many more of these kinds of unnecessary accidents do we need to have globally, before we recognize that "non-precision approaches" are unnecessary, obsolete dinosaurs, that have no place in modern jet transport aviation?
Unfortunatly many A/C are flown in 3rd world countries who are not yet "modern".
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 13:03
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and with a servicable GPWS or basic satnav there should have been little trouble with the glide.
GPWS wouldn't produce any warning, unless not properly configured or high ROD.

EGPWS indeed, would have helped.
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 15:12
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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What was the actual visibility at the time of the accident? Can anyone post the METAR. I see from the Jep chart that 2800 metres is required.
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 15:22
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What was the actual visibility at the time of the accident? Can anyone post the METAR. I see from the Jep chart that 2800 metres is required.
According to Aviation Hearld there are no METARs or local weather reports for this airport.
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 15:34
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Originally Posted by aterpster
According to Aviation Hearld there are no METARs or local weather reports for this airport.
You'd be lucky to get a windsock, let alone runway threshold markings at some of the remote airports in Myanmar...
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 17:23
  #66 (permalink)  

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I know it's only Google Earth, but the terrain looks pretty flat for the three miles before the 36 threshold. Don't see why they would impact before the runway, unless something else was wrong. As has been posted before, if a reverser deployed inadverently the thrust level would retract to idle. At approach power, that would normally be quite controllable.
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 18:41
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What was the actual visibility at the time of the accident? Can anyone post the METAR. I see from the Jep chart that 2800 metres is required.
Flat, except for the power lines and the row of trees.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 00:03
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Unfortunatly many A/C are flown in 3rd world countries who are not yet "modern".
It has little to do with the type of approaches. Non precision approaches have been normal procedure since instrument approaches were first used in aviation. This includes WW2. The problem is the incompetency of the pilots that fly them and the age old habits of `ducking` under. ` Change the attitudes, cultural or otherwise of the crews and the perceived risks associated with non-precision approaches will reduce.

"Real men don't go around" is the attitude that leads to crashes and kills people and there is plenty of evidence this attitude is common among certain types of pilots. Again, ethnic culture often plays its part.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 02:58
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Let's say this aircraft was equipped with GPS. I don't believe the Myanmar CAA has issued any approvals for stand alone GPS approaches.
Has anyone found a stand alone GPS approach in that country?
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 08:27
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Sometimes the attitude in these 3rd world places with NDB approaches is "you just put the needle on the nose and go as low as you can go".In these humid tropical environments the clouds grow up out of the jungle not down from the sky.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:25
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Don't normally comment on accidents and wont pretend to have any special knowledge, but apart from the detached TRs, nobody seems to have mentioned the bloody big hole in the side of the nacelle..
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:01
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Originally Posted by Lone_Ranger
Don't normally comment on accidents and wont pretend to have any special knowledge, but apart from the detached TRs, nobody seems to have mentioned the bloody big hole in the side of the nacelle..
Well, if you are seeing the same hole that I see, the fire damage runs vertically above the hole, and not aft, ergo more than likely caused after everything came to rest.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:12
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The fire may have come afterwards, dont mean the hole didnt get made before it lit up does it? anyway just an observation.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 15:44
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obsolete dinosaurs, that have no place in modern jet transport aviation?
The F100 was way advanced for it's day. I flew them years ago in the 90's, but I'd say thay are more advanced in many ways than the new 737-800's I fly now.
I would be happy to fly them again any time.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 16:03
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Ballsout. I agree wholeheartedly. They were the bees'knees. Only problem I ever knew about was when the busbar behind the FO shorted out and filled the FD with blinding smoke/fumes in seconds. LHS was wearing enormous glasses that gave hin a little protection and he slung it at the nearest runway he could see(fortunately they were in the pattern at CPH at the time). The FMS was way ahead of it's time and the instrumentation was pure early Airbus. It was a delight to fly and we had an unofficial competition to see who could get it from LGW to CDG (raw date/manual) fastest. No problems with over reliance on gizmos then!
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 16:30
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Don't normally comment on accidents and wont pretend to have any special
knowledge, but apart from the detached TRs, nobody seems to have mentioned the
bloody big hole in the side of the nacelle..
I mentioned about potentially spat blades with my original comment on the TR. But this could have come as a result of FOD as the jet carved its way through the treeline.

My thoughts are in agreement with another poster; if this damage pre-existed prior to impact, you would have expected smoke stains both aft and above the hole. Until the prelim report comes out and they replay the tapes, its all guesswork!

If the aircraft has impacted trees, I wouldnt be surprised if the TR had ripped itself off in the impact with the ground.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 18:02
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It has little to do with the type of approaches. Non precision approaches have been normal procedure since instrument approaches were first used in aviation.
Relevant accident statistics show the opposite....
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 20:21
  #78 (permalink)  
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Yes, it's so like many of the accidents/incidents at the time of my early career.

I can still feel the reluctance to breath as we descended into icy still cloud on one NDB.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 22:50
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EXPERTS

How many of you have operated in to Heho?

Know the terrain, threats?
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 00:49
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The F100 although advanced for its time did have drawbacks, many were fitted with AHRS and without adequate DME updating the map could shift quite alot, I do not know of a GPS upgrade for the aircraft and the airline i operated them for had TAWS (EGPWS) fitted some 7 or 8 years ago, it is unlikely that this aircraft had TAWS fitted when new , therefore it is possible that it was retro fitted to this airframe. An NDB approach was not easy although the drift ball and (if well trained) the FPA was useful.

I always remember my sim instructor in the 1990s when converting onto the type preaching that when all the gizmos were starting to confuse and absorb the crew to throw them away and to always remember "its only a bloody aeroplane!" and revert to basics. "the kit although clever is perfectly capable of flying you into a mountain". Wise words.
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