Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Long Delays After the 19th....

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Long Delays After the 19th....

Old 16th Apr 2001, 23:05
  #1 (permalink)  
250 kts
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post Long Delays After the 19th....

... due to the introduction of RVSM. This is the reduction in separation above FL290 from 2000ft To 1000ft.
A reduction in traffic by 20% will be imposed on the affected sectors ie. all of them. This is due to the fact that it's not certain how many RA's will be activated by TCAS. Our documentation says that the crews will have been given special training for the introduction. Can anyone tell us what that entailed?
Keep a good look out!!!!
 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 03:04
  #2 (permalink)  
justinzider
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

This was supposed to reduce delays!

"Training" has been cumpulsory reading of a new manual/ supplement and the introduction of new calls.
 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 13:02
  #3 (permalink)  
moschops
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

RVSM where exactly?
 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 13:08
  #4 (permalink)  
Checksix
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Within UK airspace. RVSM mandated in EUR RVSM Areas between FL290 - FL410 inclusive takes effect 24 Jan 2002. RVSM has been incorporated into SOPs, applicable manuals and there has been more than adequate training and dissemination of info within our company.
 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 13:16
  #5 (permalink)  
HighSpeed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

i thought RVSM was already in existence in NATS and east of Australia for quite awhile now?
 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 14:20
  #6 (permalink)  
Cough
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Have had a company notice about reducing the Rate of Climb/Descent to less than 1000'/min when within 1000' of the cleared level.

C.........ough
 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 15:43
  #7 (permalink)  
The Fat Controller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Having operated the RVSM system in parts of Scottish UIR for 2 years or so I can honestly say that there have been few TCAS occurences.
I think most pilots are aware enough of the traffic in their CLOSE proximity that rates of climb and descent have been sensibly applied and monitored.
I am sure my colleagues in London will have no problem in adapting to the changes, and in a few weeks time will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Just watch out for those aircraft that are still allowed up there but are not RVSM approved, they are the one that cause the problems !!!!!!!!

------------------
FATCO
 
Old 18th Apr 2001, 03:42
  #8 (permalink)  
HounslowHarry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Fat

Difference being that there is very little traffic in the Scottish UIR?

HH (They don'y call us Primas for nothing.....joke!)
 
Old 18th Apr 2001, 07:30
  #9 (permalink)  
GotTheTshirt
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Wink

Isn't EU RVSM mandated later in the year but UK has gone it alone ???
 
Old 18th Apr 2001, 12:17
  #10 (permalink)  
The Fat Controller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

HH.
I've taken the bait........
Come up and try a 10 West interface sector on a 7 track day, it may surprise you.
Enough of the sarcasm, all I was trying to do was point out that there have been fewer problems with TCAS than some would imagine.
From the ATCO's point of view I'm sure we will all adapt quickly.


------------------
FATCO
 
Old 21st Apr 2001, 15:34
  #11 (permalink)  
HighSpeed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

i believe with updated version 7 of the tcas, it would eliminate 'nuisance' TAs...
 
Old 21st Apr 2001, 15:59
  #12 (permalink)  
SKYDRIFTER
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

INTERESTING -

Seems like pushing TCAS limits of any sort is something like being " ...a little bit pregnant."

Imagine someone reacting to such a TCAS alert, convinced that it isn't the innocent kind. Or someone NOT reacting to a real one, but being tired and not reacting in time.

Anything for a buck.
 
Old 22nd Apr 2001, 02:00
  #13 (permalink)  
NigelOnDraft
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

From Nth Atlantic Ops, TCAS TAs are quite frequent - but by their nature, not a problem.

Sensible RoC /RoD should avoid RAs - but this is no different to lower level stuff in TMAs...

If this is the reason for reducing capacity in areas with double the FLs, sounds a bit OTT!

NoD
 
Old 22nd Apr 2001, 22:12
  #14 (permalink)  
250 kts
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

No Nigel, this isn't the only reason for a reduction in the flow rates. The introduction of RVSM results in controllers, after only 4 hours of familiarisation, having to erradicate from their minds the habits of operation of a "lifetime". e.g. FL310 and 350 previously being westbound, have now become eastbound levels.

Some of the aircraft which are supposed to be RVSM equipped and indicated as so on our flight progress strips have turned out not to be and consequently additional separation problems have been encountered when not expected. Also, other traffic which is not indicated as RVSM equipped, is.

Previous claims that the introduction of RVSM in Scottish airspace did not cause any major problems is due to the fact that their traffic tends to be less in density and more omni directional, with fewer crossing tracks than encountered in LATCC airspace (sorry SCATCC, but true).

I would agree that from a pilot's point of view, these changes may appear to be minimal, but if you have ever bothered to go around an area control unit then you would realise the major impact that this type of change would have.

In addition to this, controllers at LATCC are having to cope with numerous major changes in sectorisation, together with training on new equipment for the proposed opening of Swanwick.

I hope this helps your understanding of the situation better and, as I said on my initial post, "keep a good lookout".

 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.