Blind leading the blind????
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Blind leading the blind????
Captured from todays local "comic."
PLANES LAND 'BLIND' IN FOG
PILOTS were forced to land planes 'blind' in fog after crucial radar equipment failed at Luton Airport.
Unbeknown to passengers, aircraft were 'invisible' on a computer screen that is normally used to locate planes when visibility is poor.
Instead, control tower staff had to guide them in by radio alone.
Ground radar is designed to work in conjunction with air traffic controllers who plot a plane's progress by co-ordinates.
Mid-air and runway collisions are avoided this way.
The ground radar system broke down at the beginning of March and took almost a month to repair.
Airport chiefs, who tried to keep the problem quiet, say passenger safety was never at risk because they introduced contingency measures. But when a spokesman was questioned by Luton on Sunday, he refused to say what those measures were.
Spokesman Ian Briggs said: "There was an outage (a period of non-operation) of the radar in March.
"Planes can still land without it because the equipment is not compulsory.
"We implemented contingency measures and these were fully maintained until the equipment was returned to serviceability.
"We can't reveal what these contingency measures were because of aviation security issues."
But a pilot at the airport, who did not want to be named, revealed: "Short of bringing in another radar - which isn't possible - the only contingency plans would have been the control tower relying on talking to pilots to find out their co-ordinates.
"It's basically reverting to the old-fashioned way of landing. Theoretically it is not dangerous but it certainly isn't as safe as having a radar."
Ground radar problems caused one of the worst aviation disasters in recent years when two planes collided on a runway in Milan last October.
The crash, happened when a Scandinavian Airways plane was cleared for take-off in the early hours of a foggy morning. A private jet landed on the same runway seconds earlier and the two planes collided. All 110 people on board the Scandinavian plane died.
Residents living near Luton Airport were horrified when told about the radar problem.
Carol xxxxxx, of xxxxx xxxxx Road, said: "I am shocked. When I got up for work throughout March, I can't remember it not being foggy but planes were still landing.
"If all the equipment, no matter how important or how fundamental, isn't working planes should be diverted for the safety of passengers, crew and residents."
Mark xxxxxx, of xxxxxxxxx Road, added: "Imagine if a plane had crashed. I wonder if we would have been told that the airport's ground radar wasn't working."
Richard xxxx, county councillor for Caddington and Slip End, said: "All planes heading to Luton Airport fly over these two villages. If control staff are restricted on what they can do or see because the radar is out of order, obviously it is of great concern."
Can't win can you!
PLANES LAND 'BLIND' IN FOG
PILOTS were forced to land planes 'blind' in fog after crucial radar equipment failed at Luton Airport.
Unbeknown to passengers, aircraft were 'invisible' on a computer screen that is normally used to locate planes when visibility is poor.
Instead, control tower staff had to guide them in by radio alone.
Ground radar is designed to work in conjunction with air traffic controllers who plot a plane's progress by co-ordinates.
Mid-air and runway collisions are avoided this way.
The ground radar system broke down at the beginning of March and took almost a month to repair.
Airport chiefs, who tried to keep the problem quiet, say passenger safety was never at risk because they introduced contingency measures. But when a spokesman was questioned by Luton on Sunday, he refused to say what those measures were.
Spokesman Ian Briggs said: "There was an outage (a period of non-operation) of the radar in March.
"Planes can still land without it because the equipment is not compulsory.
"We implemented contingency measures and these were fully maintained until the equipment was returned to serviceability.
"We can't reveal what these contingency measures were because of aviation security issues."
But a pilot at the airport, who did not want to be named, revealed: "Short of bringing in another radar - which isn't possible - the only contingency plans would have been the control tower relying on talking to pilots to find out their co-ordinates.
"It's basically reverting to the old-fashioned way of landing. Theoretically it is not dangerous but it certainly isn't as safe as having a radar."
Ground radar problems caused one of the worst aviation disasters in recent years when two planes collided on a runway in Milan last October.
The crash, happened when a Scandinavian Airways plane was cleared for take-off in the early hours of a foggy morning. A private jet landed on the same runway seconds earlier and the two planes collided. All 110 people on board the Scandinavian plane died.
Residents living near Luton Airport were horrified when told about the radar problem.
Carol xxxxxx, of xxxxx xxxxx Road, said: "I am shocked. When I got up for work throughout March, I can't remember it not being foggy but planes were still landing.
"If all the equipment, no matter how important or how fundamental, isn't working planes should be diverted for the safety of passengers, crew and residents."
Mark xxxxxx, of xxxxxxxxx Road, added: "Imagine if a plane had crashed. I wonder if we would have been told that the airport's ground radar wasn't working."
Richard xxxx, county councillor for Caddington and Slip End, said: "All planes heading to Luton Airport fly over these two villages. If control staff are restricted on what they can do or see because the radar is out of order, obviously it is of great concern."
Can't win can you!
Last edited by Freddy Forks; 14th Apr 2002 at 11:13.
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Amazing isn't it, how a lack of knowledge and a little bit of info go to make a non-story that scares Jo Public.
I wonder if Mark, Richard & Carol would be shocked to find out that their holiday charter flights went into plenty of destinations that didn't have radar at all! How do they think aviation survived in the past? Do they not realise that contingency planning is done for just about everything in aviation in an attempt to minimise reliance on any one system?
It really is irresponsible to scare people without putting increased risk factors into perspective; I'm damn sure that during the period of no ground radar at Luton the pax were still at significantly more risk once they had got into their trusty motor in the car park.................
PP
ps Was it 'Ground Radar' (not been to Luton for a long time) or was it ground based radar used in the terminal area? Threads crossed either way.
I wonder if Mark, Richard & Carol would be shocked to find out that their holiday charter flights went into plenty of destinations that didn't have radar at all! How do they think aviation survived in the past? Do they not realise that contingency planning is done for just about everything in aviation in an attempt to minimise reliance on any one system?
It really is irresponsible to scare people without putting increased risk factors into perspective; I'm damn sure that during the period of no ground radar at Luton the pax were still at significantly more risk once they had got into their trusty motor in the car park.................
PP
ps Was it 'Ground Radar' (not been to Luton for a long time) or was it ground based radar used in the terminal area? Threads crossed either way.
Last edited by Pilot Pete; 14th Apr 2002 at 19:26.
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The crash, happened when a Scandinavian Airways plane was cleared for take-off in the early hours of a foggy morning. A private jet landed on the same runway seconds earlier and the two planes collided.
Who's Scandinavian Airways?
Facts please, facts!
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Which worldly-wise source of aviation information are you reading there? Flight International? AW&ST?
Ah...could it be "Luton on Sunday"...?
Erm...wouldn't be my first choice if I wanted to know what was going on.
Ah...could it be "Luton on Sunday"...?
Erm...wouldn't be my first choice if I wanted to know what was going on.
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Konkorski is correct.
Sadly this group of newspapers decided it had not got anything else better to put on the front pages of their other titles so it was also the lead story on "Bedfordshire on Sunday" and "Leighton Buzzard on Sunday".
Sadly this group of newspapers decided it had not got anything else better to put on the front pages of their other titles so it was also the lead story on "Bedfordshire on Sunday" and "Leighton Buzzard on Sunday".
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Pilot pete,
it was the ground movement radar.
Just a small layer in the overall safety picture at UK airports, and the biggest user of Luton airport has standard LVP SOP's that include calling "entering runway,rolling, airborne and vacated runway" IN ENGLISH, so everyone gets the situational awareness they need.
Poor old joe public, god help them if they ever found out about MEL's and ADD's, they would never fly!!!
I suppose that would stop the problem of the British hooligans overseas!!
it was the ground movement radar.
Just a small layer in the overall safety picture at UK airports, and the biggest user of Luton airport has standard LVP SOP's that include calling "entering runway,rolling, airborne and vacated runway" IN ENGLISH, so everyone gets the situational awareness they need.
Poor old joe public, god help them if they ever found out about MEL's and ADD's, they would never fly!!!
I suppose that would stop the problem of the British hooligans overseas!!
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Blind leading the blind????
Gentlemen,
Suffice to say (and perhaps to bring this topic to a conclusion) I can state definitively that "Luton on Sunday" subtantially mis-quoted - and and indeed completely fabricated the quotes supposed to have come from London Luton's source.
I know that no-one would be vulgar enough to ask me how I know that..
Suffice to say (and perhaps to bring this topic to a conclusion) I can state definitively that "Luton on Sunday" subtantially mis-quoted - and and indeed completely fabricated the quotes supposed to have come from London Luton's source.
I know that no-one would be vulgar enough to ask me how I know that..
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Blind leading the blind????
Sorry all,
Having re-read my carelessly typed last posting - I realise (and not to malign the esteemed journal in question too greatly) that I should have said that in my estimation, they fabricated approximately 50% of the quotes supposed to have come from London Luton's source.
Having re-read my carelessly typed last posting - I realise (and not to malign the esteemed journal in question too greatly) that I should have said that in my estimation, they fabricated approximately 50% of the quotes supposed to have come from London Luton's source.
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The story certainly caused us to all laugh whilist stealing the zoo visitors sarnies on Sunday!
Trouble is, Joe public reads it and may well think the story to be true! (Not the story about the over fed, but naughty bears!)
Now just how do the tower controllers guide aircraft in to land with just a radio alone?
Maybe they have Bob Monkhouse, Annie Aston and Bernie 'the bolt' working up there these days?
Anyway, who needs Cat 3 landing capabilities if the tower folk are so good!
Headlines next weeks local rag, "Buster the bear is really and ATCO"! Impossible, ATCO's dont steal!
Trouble is, Joe public reads it and may well think the story to be true! (Not the story about the over fed, but naughty bears!)
Now just how do the tower controllers guide aircraft in to land with just a radio alone?
Maybe they have Bob Monkhouse, Annie Aston and Bernie 'the bolt' working up there these days?
Anyway, who needs Cat 3 landing capabilities if the tower folk are so good!
Headlines next weeks local rag, "Buster the bear is really and ATCO"! Impossible, ATCO's dont steal!
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Buster, calm down! Are you sure that all those seriously diligent reporters are wrong?
Go back to stealing corned beef sarnies from the paying visitors. Of course the tower controllers can use radio to talk the jets down.....Now I must see my Doctor!
Right a bit....Left a bit....Down a bit....LAND!
Cool!
Go back to stealing corned beef sarnies from the paying visitors. Of course the tower controllers can use radio to talk the jets down.....Now I must see my Doctor!
Right a bit....Left a bit....Down a bit....LAND!
Cool!
