3-way airmiss at DCA

[Blind Squirrel]

'During the switchover of operations, miscommunication between the Tracon and the DCA tower led to a loss of the required separation between two regional jets departing from Runway 1 and a regional jet inbound for Runway 19,' FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown told AFP.

ATC audio at link:-

Two planes taking off from National put on collision course with plane trying to land - The Washington Post

[poorjohn]

Any reason to think TCAS wouldn't have sorted it out?

[dwshimoda]

...depends

It depends on the stage of the approach / departure. Certain versions of TCAS are inhibited until circa 1,000RA on climb, and below 1,000RA on descent (This is from memory - I could be wrong) So no, you cannot rely on TCAS to sort this out.

Edited to add: As mentioned below, otherwise at busy airports it would be a nightmare, plus that close to the ground you would probably question a TCAS demanding a fly down...

[Hotel Tango]

Any reason to think TCAS wouldn't have sorted it out?

To start with this was not a scenario TCAS was designed for. As mentioned above, TCAS is inhibited below a predefined altitude. If it wasn't it could get pretty messy at busy airports.

[Pugilistic Animus]

Also even at slightly higher levels TCAS has lower priority the EGPWS, so it really can't be relied upon for separation only last ditch emergency warning...I think there's a need for more controllers I think we have them stretched to the limit again...I don't want to criticize because I could never do ATC's job and it's to early to even speculate,...but generally when ATC messes up it's retraining; when pilots mess up it's loss of license...I do know for an ATC'er that this is their most feared event loss of separation.

[Basset hound]

Incident: Republic E175, Republic E170, Chautauqua E135 at Washington on Jul 31st 2012, loss of separation

By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Aug 2nd 2012 19:47Z, last updated Thursday, Aug 2nd 2012 22:17Z
A Republic Airlines Embraer ERJ-175, flight YX-3329 from Portland,ME to Washington National,DC (USA), was following the Potomac River Approach and cleared to land on runway 19 descending through about 1900 feet at 14:08L (18:08Z).

The aircraft had been vectored onto the river approach following a runway switch, runway 19 became active due to arriving weather after runway 01 had been active before.

A Chautauqua Airlines Embraer ERJ-135, flight RP-3071 from Washington National,DC to Columbus,OH (USA), departed runway 01 at 14:06L (18:06Z) and was climbing through about 3400 feet above the arriving aircraft at 14:08L.

A Republic Airlines Embraer ERJ-170, flight YX-3467 from Washington National,DC to Kansas City,MO (USA), also departed runway 01 at 14:07L (18:07Z) and was climbing through about 1500 feet at 14:08L in opposite direction to YX-3329.

Tower recognized the error after YX-3329 was cleared to land, the controller asking puzzled "you are on the river?" YX-3329 was instructed to climb back to 2000 feet and turn sharply with the stunned crew querying "what happened?", the two departures already on departure frequency were turned as well.

The two departures were able to continue to their destinations for safe landings, YX-3329 positioned for another approach to Washington and landed safely, too.

The FAA reported that due to weather arriving the active runway was switched from 01 to 19. During the switch over a miscommunication occurred between tower and tracon causing aircraft already being vectored to land on runway 19 when aircraft were still departing in opposite direction on runway 01 resulting in a loss of separation between three aircraft carrying a total of 192 people on board. The NTSB is investigating the occurrence.

FAA radar data show YX-3329 at 14:08L at 1900 feet and YX-3467 at 1500 feet with a horizontal distance of 3.3nm, at 14:09L YX-3329 at 1800 feet and YX-3467 at 3000 feet (clear of conflict) with a horizontal distance of 2.0 nm.

The FAA and US Transportation Secretary Lahood reported late Aug 2nd that the minimum separation between YX-3329 and RP-3071 reduced to 800 feet vertical and 0.83nm horizontal, the closest separation between YX-3329 and YX-3467 was 800 feet vertical and 2.07nm with both aircraft on diverging trajectories. All aircraft had TCAS available, however no TCAS resolution advisory was issued by either aircraft system. Secretary Lahood added: "There was a loss of separation – it shouldn’t have happened. But a well-trained controller at the DCA tower immediately recognized the situation and worked quickly to fix it."

FlightAware > Republic (RW) #3329 > 31-Jul-2012 > KPWM - KDCA Flight Tracker
FlightAware > Chautauqua (RP) #3071 > 31-Jul-2012 > KDCA - KCMH Flight Tracker
FlightAware > Republic (RW) #3467 > 31-Jul-2012 > KDCA - KMCI Flight Tracker

Metars:
KDCA 311942Z 14010KT 7SM TSRA SCT065CB BKN090 OVC110 28/22 A2992 RMK AO2 TSB22RAB32 OCNL LTGICCG W-NE TS W-NE MOV NE CB DSNT SE-SW MOV NE VIS NW-N 2 P0001
KDCA 311922Z 17014KT 10SM TS FEW045CB SCT090 BKN110 BKN250 29/21 A2992 RMK AO2 TSB22 OCNL LTGIC VC W-NW TS W-NW MOV NE CB DSNT SE-SW MOV NE VCSH W-NW
KDCA 311852Z 16010G17KT 10SM FEW025 SCT045CB SCT110 SCT250 32/20 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP135 CB VC NE MOV NE CB DSNT SE-S MOV NE VCSH NE T03170200
KDCA 311837Z 15010KT 10SM FEW025 SCT045CB SCT110 SCT250 31/21 A2992 RMK AO2 CB NE MOV NE CB DSNT SE-S MOV NE
KDCA 311752Z VRB03KT 10SM SCT055TCU SCT250 31/18 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP138 TCU VC SE-S T03110178 10317 20250 58020
KDCA 311652Z 00000KT 10SM SCT050 SCT250 31/18 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP144 T03110183
KDCA 311452Z 00000KT 10SM BKN032 BKN170 BKN250 27/20 A3000 RMK AO2 SLP158 T02720200 58002

[Hotel Tango]

If it were not for the departing a/c being on a seperate frequency to the arrival I would suggest that even more timely action could have taken place. The norm is for the departing a/c, after receiving t-off clearance, to monitor TWR until airborne and then switch immediately to the Departure frequency. Because of this procedure the TWR lady had to contact her Departure colleague, explain what was going on and instruct him to turn his outbound traffic. Those extra seconds eats into the seperation.

[Instant Hooligan]

The norm is for the departing a/c, after receiving t-off clearance, to monitor TWR until airborne and then switch immediately to the Departure frequency.

Maybe where you fly but this is not standard in many parts of the world. Staying on tower freq till advised is more the norm in my experience.

[Hotel Tango]

Depends where you fly but this incident took place in DCA which is where my comment is directed. Even in Europe it is now standard at many airports to switch to DEP frequency when airborne without instruction from TWR.

[pakeha-boy]

Instant hooligan quote;


;Maybe where you fly but this is not standard in many parts of the world'.


then Hooligan...stay out of KDCA......because those are their procedures.....

[Instant Hooligan]

Hotel,

Having read your post again I see it is directed towards DCA ops not what I understood first time

Thanks for the heads up Pakeha, i'll be sure to take your advice!!

[aterpster]

Keep in mind this is one of the most security sensitive airports in the world.

The guy coming down the river to land on Runway 19 is faced with Prohibited Area 56 immediately to his left, and as he gets reasonably low lots of high buildings off to his right.

More than a few people believe the feds have firepower at the ready to fire if someone makes too wild of an excursion. That may not be true, though.

[Ditchdigger]

The guy coming down the river to land on Runway 19 is faced with Prohibited
Area 56 immediately to his left,

That would've also inhibited the departure controller's ability to turn the outbound traffic to their right, away from the conflict, no?

[con-pilot]

No big deal, happens at ASE* all the time. On busy days there are always landing and departing aircraft heading at each other. Then passing each other some times at the same altitude, one while descending to land, the other climbing out in the valley.

Course one is expecting it at ASE, not DCA.





* Aspen, Colorado.

[TTex600]

This is not surprising. DCA controllers, both Potomac and DCA local, are the least aware of their airspace and the airplanes in it of any place I fly. If it weren't for the gravity of mistakes in said airspace, I'd just chalk it up to rookie issues, but it isn't and I really don't appreciate the nonchalant attitude of those ATC facilities.

[Chuck Canuck]

Sorry to digress here but I have had a few TCAS RAs when departing out of Dulles due to some nincompoops deviating around some puffs of cumulus and strato-cumulus. The stupid present day practice to excessively focus on " passenger comfort " is getting more and more ridiculous!

Unless it is a towering cumulus or cumulonimbus, just man up and go through for some nice rocking massage instead of clogging the airwaves with all kinds of heading requests, deviation requests and some triggering TCAS RAs with their own maneuvers.

[BobnSpike]

I have been flying into and out of DCA for 20+ years, both corporate and airline. I was domiciled there for 4 years. It is no exaggeration to say I have gone into and out of there hundreds of times.

You stay on the tower frequency until instructed by tower to contact departure.

While acknowledging this very serious communication failure, I have found Potomac Approach to be competent and professional. I have found the local controllers at DCA to be some of the best in the business.

Without attempting to downplay the seriousness of the communication breakdown and potentially disastrous consequences that could have resulted therefrom, once the situation was recognized it was dealt with quickly and effectively. There was the potential for a collision due to a communication breakdown between TRACON and Local; there was not an imminent collision due to individual controller error.

[sevenstrokeroll]

Let me Echo BOBNSPIKE's words: Simply put, Nowhere in the USA do you change to departure without being advised by tower (military aside). no where do you switch frequencies in normal situations without being handed off to a new frequency.

I've been based at DCA/IAD/BWI for about a dozen years. It is a demanding place to fly. Simply put, ATC screwed up big time.

22 years ago, I was cleared for ILS 9R apch and cleared to land on 9R at KPHL. No problem right? Except ATC kept saying there was departing traffic on 27LEFT.

I kept asking what on earth they had planned for us. HALF A DOZEN times I asked what was going on. ATC kept saying it would work out ok and seperation would be assured.

WELL IT WASnt, so we were going down the GS in vmc at the same time a DC10 was climbing straight towards us...we actually DUCKED UNDER THE DC10 (we were in a DC9)

3 controllers were decertified on the spot.

NEVER trust anyone...

IT is sad to say, that every generation seems to have to repeat the misakes of the past.

[Chuck Canuck]

22 years ago, I was cleared for ILS 9R apch and cleared to land on 9R at KPHL. No problem right? Except ATC kept saying there was departing traffic on 27LEFT.

I kept asking what on earth they had planned for us. HALF A DOZEN times I asked what was going on. ATC kept saying it would work out ok and seperation would be assured.

I do agree that sometimes things are just cut up too fine. Having said that, reciprocal approach and landing procedures have been effect for a long time in a number of airports. At KORD, I have had been cleared for take off with reciprocal approaches and landings in progress; the ATC guys were doing great but I was certainly on hyper edge throughout the departure.

Operational pressures have all led to this and I suspect this will become the norm soon. Pilots refusing such clearances can expect lenghty delays and other retaliatory measures. I am glad I will soon be retiring, getting away from all this madness.

[sevenstrokeroll]

canuck

the difference was that your ORD adventure made some sense...the KPHL adventure was just a huge screw up. You didn't have to take evasive action below 1000' agl