Throttle lever error nearly destroyed Dash 8's engines
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I flew freelance Captain for a couple of years on the Hawker H.S.748 factory demonstrator aircraft...and there was talk of a South American pilot who used to enhance his ROD in mountainous areas by pulling the GFP (ground fine pitch) lever and then powering up again at lower altitude....until one day he did not get away with it... failing to get the props out of GFP and crashed ending his non standard fuel and flight time saving efforts.
Last edited by 40&80; 11th Jul 2012 at 14:54.
I think that Island-Flyer has it just right. They broke a perfectly serviceable aircraft because of finger trouble. Whether the design gate was a little feeble is unimportant. It was there, with warnings etc. etc.
I have the feeling that it had become a habit to always lift the gate (As someone referred to playing with the button on the car) and in the moment of stress he just grabbed at it.
What is scary though is that they didn't react to their own actions. Slam lever back in a panic ..then.. bloody great din, why did he not think the two were connected and react?
If you are going to panic and slam levers every time it gets bumpy then stick to a bycycle. Stay calm and stay smooth. Once your mind begins to scream you are finished.
I read both Air France Airbus reports and the Scandinavian Rockwell? report open mouthed. They just sat there for minutes on end fully stalled waiting to die and it never occurred to them to at least TRY something else when even they realised they were screwed? WHY?
And who in the name of all things holy decided the correct response to a stall warning was to pull up the nose and increase power rather than get the wing unstalled. That's a computer game, not flying.
Also the comment laughing at someone in Hawaii knowing nothing, so what? maybe he is retired. Flying in the Islander for FIGAS was some of the most exciting flying I ever did. I wonder if he did similar.
Do I know about finger trouble? You bet
I got away with it, but it was PURELY down to having idly fiddled with something I should have left alone. I'll quit while i'm ahead.
I have the feeling that it had become a habit to always lift the gate (As someone referred to playing with the button on the car) and in the moment of stress he just grabbed at it.
What is scary though is that they didn't react to their own actions. Slam lever back in a panic ..then.. bloody great din, why did he not think the two were connected and react?
If you are going to panic and slam levers every time it gets bumpy then stick to a bycycle. Stay calm and stay smooth. Once your mind begins to scream you are finished.
I read both Air France Airbus reports and the Scandinavian Rockwell? report open mouthed. They just sat there for minutes on end fully stalled waiting to die and it never occurred to them to at least TRY something else when even they realised they were screwed? WHY?
And who in the name of all things holy decided the correct response to a stall warning was to pull up the nose and increase power rather than get the wing unstalled. That's a computer game, not flying.
Also the comment laughing at someone in Hawaii knowing nothing, so what? maybe he is retired. Flying in the Islander for FIGAS was some of the most exciting flying I ever did. I wonder if he did similar.
Do I know about finger trouble? You bet
I got away with it, but it was PURELY down to having idly fiddled with something I should have left alone. I'll quit while i'm ahead.
The standard Dash 8 will prevent the props going into ground beta in flight if the power levers are in the flight range, that is it prevents ground beta due to mechanical fault but not due to a deliberate action. There is a mod however, that prevents the props going to ground beta regardless of where the power levers are. You won't get it even if you pull the powers back below the flight idle gate. Pity the PNG Dash and this one don't seem to have been fitted with it.
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The problem with most people flying the Dash-8 is the way they position there hand during flight. Most of them will position there fingers over the triggers and so in a reflex pull them when they have to reduce power fast.
I saw and heard it once happen with a co-pilot of mine.
During a TCAS resolution advisory we heard the birdy.
In the attempt to go into the green necessary for the descent resolution advisory he inadvertently pulled the trigger because of his hand placement when he reduced the power levers.
Since then I'm adamant with them to only grip the throttles until after touchdown.
Luckily he did not pull them far enough to get into disk-ing but it got our attention.
Later during a conversation I had about it with my chief pilot the first thing he asked where I was when I told him: "At the airport". The only thing he said was: "Good"
I saw and heard it once happen with a co-pilot of mine.
During a TCAS resolution advisory we heard the birdy.
In the attempt to go into the green necessary for the descent resolution advisory he inadvertently pulled the trigger because of his hand placement when he reduced the power levers.
Since then I'm adamant with them to only grip the throttles until after touchdown.
Luckily he did not pull them far enough to get into disk-ing but it got our attention.
Later during a conversation I had about it with my chief pilot the first thing he asked where I was when I told him: "At the airport". The only thing he said was: "Good"
Last edited by D-OCHO; 13th Jul 2012 at 16:08.
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The problem with most people flying the Dash-8 is the way they position there hand during flight.
Flew the Dash 8-200/300/Q400 about 10 years ago, and can't remember the physical design of the ground fine gate, but what about if the gate was worn or rigged out of tolerance?
What about if the Captain had his hands correctly on the levers, but just at the point he was bringing the levers back, there was a big lurch and the levers shot through the gate before he could stop them? Placards are all very well, but if the cockpit is shaking so much that you can't read the instrumentation, then accurately positioning the power levers is not going to be easy either.
What if there was rain/hail involved, making audio cues difficult to interpret straight away? Also, if the ground fine selection happened at the same time that the aircraft was thrown into a very unusual attitude, then I would imagine that the pilot's first priority and reaction would be to correct that attitude and regain control?
None of us were there folks, so some of the comments on this thread are inappropriate.
U
What about if the Captain had his hands correctly on the levers, but just at the point he was bringing the levers back, there was a big lurch and the levers shot through the gate before he could stop them? Placards are all very well, but if the cockpit is shaking so much that you can't read the instrumentation, then accurately positioning the power levers is not going to be easy either.
What if there was rain/hail involved, making audio cues difficult to interpret straight away? Also, if the ground fine selection happened at the same time that the aircraft was thrown into a very unusual attitude, then I would imagine that the pilot's first priority and reaction would be to correct that attitude and regain control?
None of us were there folks, so some of the comments on this thread are inappropriate.
U
