Fatigued crew call pan-pan into MUC
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Last leave November 2011, 3 days in August then next leave Feb 2013. That's good for your fatigue levels isn't it Mr JD!
Last edited by in my last airline; 29th Jun 2012 at 07:17.
Eran-Tasker says government figures show that the number of would-be pilots presenting themselves for training, and the number of licences being issued, are both going down because the appeal of *piloting as a career is plummeting.
He ascribes this to industry instability, the high entry cost, *unsocial working patterns, and the fact that *piloting is now less well paid than some other professions.(Flight International)
A vicious circle. The less attractive they make it the harder existing pilots will have to work the more fatigued we get the less attractive the job.
He ascribes this to industry instability, the high entry cost, *unsocial working patterns, and the fact that *piloting is now less well paid than some other professions.(Flight International)
A vicious circle. The less attractive they make it the harder existing pilots will have to work the more fatigued we get the less attractive the job.
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Fatigue Denial......... Hello Tomorrow
For well hidden fatigue issues look no further than certain members of the rising 5 star airlines in the Middle East..........
The 'factorisation' of flying hours, thereby exceeding 900 hours per year routinely, some of the industry's longest sectors flown with inadequate rest facilities, common bad practice of scheduling 24 hr layovers with much back-of-the-clock ops, punitive reporting culture, hiding fatigue reporting statistics, regulator in the airlines' back pocket, rapid expansion and zero pilot representation, with indifferent and pre-historic management......
And yet with lots of other areas in the doldrums, folks are queuing up to join - what to do? We all know the sad logical outcome, we've all been warned and yet the wheel of life in our business keeps repeating itself with the obvious tragic outcomes. Can we never learn...........?
The 'factorisation' of flying hours, thereby exceeding 900 hours per year routinely, some of the industry's longest sectors flown with inadequate rest facilities, common bad practice of scheduling 24 hr layovers with much back-of-the-clock ops, punitive reporting culture, hiding fatigue reporting statistics, regulator in the airlines' back pocket, rapid expansion and zero pilot representation, with indifferent and pre-historic management......
And yet with lots of other areas in the doldrums, folks are queuing up to join - what to do? We all know the sad logical outcome, we've all been warned and yet the wheel of life in our business keeps repeating itself with the obvious tragic outcomes. Can we never learn...........?
Last edited by Plank Cap; 27th Jun 2012 at 09:52. Reason: Sp.
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Are you serious?
Pika
*
Join Date: May 2001
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I had read in another forum that the cockpit-crew was fired in the meantime. Has anybody any information about this?
*
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5
I had read in another forum that the cockpit-crew was fired in the meantime. Has anybody any information about this?
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In an MD80 coupled up with a minimums approach to MSY had everything disconect at 300 feet in the clouds because of some turbulence. We corrected everything and broke out and landed.
If you were so fatigued you couldn't land without autoland should you be flying that leg?
I quit flying all nighters because I didn't feel alert enough at 3AM to feel safe. They didn't feel alert enough to land so did the PAN transmission. That is not safe either. Some of us can't sleep during the day, I can't.
If you were so fatigued you couldn't land without autoland should you be flying that leg?
I quit flying all nighters because I didn't feel alert enough at 3AM to feel safe. They didn't feel alert enough to land so did the PAN transmission. That is not safe either. Some of us can't sleep during the day, I can't.
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...reading this bears to mind the incident at Schiphol where the aircrew lost situational awareness (this time due to brabbling to each other?) and CFIT in the polder just short of the runway.
If one is tired after a long haul or an international flight or a red-eye, ok, but to resort to a "side trick" in order to get clearance for a non-sop ... brings questions to mind.
I know by own account that uncoupling the FMS and doing a manual is a better way to wake up then any(if company sop's permit blabla). Now I do give credence to the crew that they had the nerve and balls to declare a situation, but this does need an investigation and consequences. Both pilots too tired !? Thinking an auto-land is then better, WTF? What if something disconnects mentioned in a post before at MDA or DA, engine failure, bird strike, runway incursion etc, what about scanning the instruments what is 10x more harder and sleep inducing when you are doing absolutely NOTHING and tired instead of excerting physical motion? If I were ATC I would give them a GA and vector them awake, when landed have them call me, or else have a MD meet them on the apron!
But fine..., years ago I saw a documentary of the pilots "burdened" with operation give it a name in Irak. Came out these guys (and girls to some extent) were so high on pep pills they may just as well had been snorting coke on their ND! Do we need to start resorting to these measures taken from the military? The HUD (which is a positive thing) is already introducing itself in the cockpit...
But...as always, good work getting the dollars asset safely on the ground + passengers. Just something really wrong with the airline and/or BOTH pilots!
If one is tired after a long haul or an international flight or a red-eye, ok, but to resort to a "side trick" in order to get clearance for a non-sop ... brings questions to mind.
I know by own account that uncoupling the FMS and doing a manual is a better way to wake up then any(if company sop's permit blabla). Now I do give credence to the crew that they had the nerve and balls to declare a situation, but this does need an investigation and consequences. Both pilots too tired !? Thinking an auto-land is then better, WTF? What if something disconnects mentioned in a post before at MDA or DA, engine failure, bird strike, runway incursion etc, what about scanning the instruments what is 10x more harder and sleep inducing when you are doing absolutely NOTHING and tired instead of excerting physical motion? If I were ATC I would give them a GA and vector them awake, when landed have them call me, or else have a MD meet them on the apron!
But fine..., years ago I saw a documentary of the pilots "burdened" with operation give it a name in Irak. Came out these guys (and girls to some extent) were so high on pep pills they may just as well had been snorting coke on their ND! Do we need to start resorting to these measures taken from the military? The HUD (which is a positive thing) is already introducing itself in the cockpit...
But...as always, good work getting the dollars asset safely on the ground + passengers. Just something really wrong with the airline and/or BOTH pilots!
