Cargo Aircraft crashes in Accra
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Featherlake
I always thought that this was an accident waiting to happen, the South end of the runway has very little "run-off" area.
For what it's worth, can I say that references to Accra's 11,000+ foot runway are bit misleading. Runway 21 has a displaced threshold and the landing distance available is about 9,800 feet. Might just make a difference. Also it might explain in part an eyewitness statemant that they appeared to land halfway down the runway.
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From what has been reported, we can speculate that, as has happened in the past, an airplane landed long on a wet runway in bad weather and overran.
As has also happened in the past, this may have been the result of the crew simply pressing a bad approach rather than abandoning it. Assuming this is the case, which at this point is a pretty big assumption, we still do not know the circumstances leading to the decision.
What was their fuel state? Did they hold awaiting an improvement in the weather? Did, for some reason, their alternate become unusable and did they exhaust their alternate and reserve fuel awaiting a change at either the destination or the alternate?
What was the condition of the aircraft? Although we do not yet have any reports of an emergency being declared or of any technical issue, was something occurring on the airplane that necessitated continuation of a bad approach? Was there a fire? Was there an issue with the flight controls that rendered a possible overrun the better choice than ago around? What if the 200 goats they were carrying broke loose from their enclosure and were stampeding back and forth upsetting the CG?
Yes, there is plenty of room for discussion and speculation and yes, that is what these boards are for. But definitive statements of cause, especially ones that state "The crew messed up and this is what they should have done" while smoke is still rising from the wreckage are also fair game for discussion.
There are some on these boards whom I pray are never on my jury.
As has also happened in the past, this may have been the result of the crew simply pressing a bad approach rather than abandoning it. Assuming this is the case, which at this point is a pretty big assumption, we still do not know the circumstances leading to the decision.
What was their fuel state? Did they hold awaiting an improvement in the weather? Did, for some reason, their alternate become unusable and did they exhaust their alternate and reserve fuel awaiting a change at either the destination or the alternate?
What was the condition of the aircraft? Although we do not yet have any reports of an emergency being declared or of any technical issue, was something occurring on the airplane that necessitated continuation of a bad approach? Was there a fire? Was there an issue with the flight controls that rendered a possible overrun the better choice than ago around? What if the 200 goats they were carrying broke loose from their enclosure and were stampeding back and forth upsetting the CG?
Yes, there is plenty of room for discussion and speculation and yes, that is what these boards are for. But definitive statements of cause, especially ones that state "The crew messed up and this is what they should have done" while smoke is still rising from the wreckage are also fair game for discussion.
There are some on these boards whom I pray are never on my jury.
Last edited by BobnSpike; 3rd Jun 2012 at 12:57.
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So why would the ATC even allow them to land in those conditions. I live less than a mile from Accra airport and heard this whole thing unfold, truth is the conditions were horrendous, as bad as ive seen in 4 years.
Its also reported that a Turkish aircraft that landed before this one experienced some problems. ??
Do the people operating the ever busying airport have their sh*t together, its not just a case of "what happens in africa stays in Africa", Accra is very busy indeed now with a lot of majors using it and some very busy periods of traffic landing and taking off in succession, mostly in the evening too, although its not to say that night landing was a factor in this incident but i dont supposed it helped the cause any, we are all aware that there has been a few close calls in Accra and it does seem to stem back to management of traffic.
Its also reported that a Turkish aircraft that landed before this one experienced some problems. ??
Do the people operating the ever busying airport have their sh*t together, its not just a case of "what happens in africa stays in Africa", Accra is very busy indeed now with a lot of majors using it and some very busy periods of traffic landing and taking off in succession, mostly in the evening too, although its not to say that night landing was a factor in this incident but i dont supposed it helped the cause any, we are all aware that there has been a few close calls in Accra and it does seem to stem back to management of traffic.
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So why would the ATC even allow them to land in those conditions.
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Because it's not their call, that's why. The decision to land is the Captain's and not that of an air traffic controller.
But in this case people are even speculating if they were in TO or landing phase. In short, no info is reliable at the moment.
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So in theory (not in this case perhaps) an ATC controller tells a pilot it's unsafe to land due to Wx and unsafe runway state and a pilot disregards an land regardless.......... Is that correct ?
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an ATC controller tells a pilot it's unsafe to land due to Wx and unsafe runway state
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HT
Quite true except that one thing you can't tell from the air is the condition of the runway, if the surface isn't suitable for an acft to land on then someone on the ground should have the balls to make the decision to close the airfield. Whether thats ATC or the airfield operator, who both should have a vested interest in the safe operation of the airfield.
Quite true except that one thing you can't tell from the air is the condition of the runway, if the surface isn't suitable for an acft to land on then someone on the ground should have the balls to make the decision to close the airfield. Whether thats ATC or the airfield operator, who both should have a vested interest in the safe operation of the airfield.
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Yet more money?
Quote from Tom Imrich "What is sad though, is that Africa isn't getting a higher priority by entities like the World bank, relating to getting foreign assistance from western states...."
Tom Imrich (I'm rich?) Are you suggesting even more money is provided to the lost cause that is Africa? More funds to be squandered, pilfered, stolen etc. by inept governments that seem to abound on that continent.
African countries have been free from the their various colonial masters for many, many years now, the time for these countries to show their independence is long overdue.
Put your hand in your pocket if you wish but please leave my money alone.
Tom Imrich (I'm rich?) Are you suggesting even more money is provided to the lost cause that is Africa? More funds to be squandered, pilfered, stolen etc. by inept governments that seem to abound on that continent.
African countries have been free from the their various colonial masters for many, many years now, the time for these countries to show their independence is long overdue.
Put your hand in your pocket if you wish but please leave my money alone.
Controversial, moi?
Quite true except that one thing you can't tell from the air is the condition of the runway, if the surface isn't suitable for an acft to land on then someone on the ground should have the balls to make the decision to close the airfield.
It can be one of the most demanding areas of the world in which to operate for reasons which range from inaccurate or non-existent NOTAMs regarding aerodrome serviceabilities, inaccurate or completely out of date ATIS, incompetent air traffic control (which encompasses poor training/recurrent training and poor/non-existent equipment) not to mention the endemic corruption which plagues most of Africa in all walks of life.
Whatever the causes of the accident in Accra poorly maintained aircraft, poorly trained crews, poor airport infrastucture and ATC all play a part in the region's appalling accident rates. Unfortunately it isn't going to change any time soon.
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Hey guys .. cut the cr@p please.
People lost their lives and loved ones, go bicker elsewhere.
There are as previously mentioned some serious operational issues to which should be added dynamic patterns of often very severe weather, and lack of suitable alternates. It can be a very demanding place in which to operate.
People lost their lives and loved ones, go bicker elsewhere.
There are as previously mentioned some serious operational issues to which should be added dynamic patterns of often very severe weather, and lack of suitable alternates. It can be a very demanding place in which to operate.
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Oh Mr Mouse you are so wrong, you missed the point completely and just chose to belittle a reasonable comment that wasn't just about Africa. There are very few places that will shut a runway, I have refused to operate in the Uk when the rwy srface has been unuseable and no one had closed the airfield, nad I have been in Lagos when they have closed the airfield due to weather conditions.
Last edited by Best foot forward; 3rd Jun 2012 at 19:41.
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I've never encountered ATC closing an airport or runway for any reason. However, I have where airport management has for different reasons, ranging from contamination to weather related.
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@conpilot, best foot forward is right. I've heard Lagos ATC say more than once, "airfield closed due wx". But only when viz or cloud base drops below ils minima or state minima. Only way you are getting in is if you declare an emergency
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Gees, con, you're lucky. Edinburgh let me carry on the roughest approach of my life to sub a thousand feet, then gave me a SnowClo. 'twas a 
moment.
moment.
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48h, and not only the causes but the trial is on and the guilty identified and crucified ! a new record...
Landing with a CB above the field is not limited to Africa and African airlines, Toronto comes to my mind . ( an please leave jokes about AF ) so this not another "African problem " .
It is normally not up to ATC to close an airport due weather , it is the (commercial) airport owner/operator. And normally they are pretty slow in reacting. CB is per nature temporary , so unlikely to qualify. (unlike snow for instance).
ATC can close a runway due presence of Forgein object, vehicle, , obstacle, etc... but normally not for a CB passing over. PIC decides to try , to continue or to go around, his call ,not ATC.
But in this case who says the CB was the main cause ?
many other options , like cargo getting loose , brake/reverse/ failures, the list is long.
Landing with a CB above the field is not limited to Africa and African airlines, Toronto comes to my mind . ( an please leave jokes about AF ) so this not another "African problem " .
It is normally not up to ATC to close an airport due weather , it is the (commercial) airport owner/operator. And normally they are pretty slow in reacting. CB is per nature temporary , so unlikely to qualify. (unlike snow for instance).
ATC can close a runway due presence of Forgein object, vehicle, , obstacle, etc... but normally not for a CB passing over. PIC decides to try , to continue or to go around, his call ,not ATC.
But in this case who says the CB was the main cause ?
many other options , like cargo getting loose , brake/reverse/ failures, the list is long.