What have BALPA ever done for us?
Join Date: Aug 1999
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As a BALPA member, I tried to get hold of their "legal representation".
All I got was the phone number of one of our own pilots, who I could quite happily talk to for free in the crew-room.
Every cloud though... I am now £44 per month better off having cancelled the subscription.
All I got was the phone number of one of our own pilots, who I could quite happily talk to for free in the crew-room.
Every cloud though... I am now £44 per month better off having cancelled the subscription.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Reg has sent me another email this time excusing what he said in the first one:
So here's an open post to Reg:
Dear Reg,
If you dont want to email people and spread the word dont just hit REPLY coz you never know where your mail will go !
Love
Justin.
PS Except at Xmas when I hope Im on your Xmas list.Luv and kisses.
My email was not intended to go directly to you, I would have chosen my
words a good deal more carefully had I been directly addressing yourself,
but that is by the by. You may not be too aware of this but at the moment
every area of expenditure within Balpa is under review. Our legal spend is
fairly hefty when compared to income and a significant part of that legal
spend is in defending members at Tribunal.
words a good deal more carefully had I been directly addressing yourself,
but that is by the by. You may not be too aware of this but at the moment
every area of expenditure within Balpa is under review. Our legal spend is
fairly hefty when compared to income and a significant part of that legal
spend is in defending members at Tribunal.
Dear Reg,
If you dont want to email people and spread the word dont just hit REPLY coz you never know where your mail will go !
Love
Justin.
PS Except at Xmas when I hope Im on your Xmas list.Luv and kisses.
Uncle Pete
Join Date: Jul 1999
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Hey Reg,
If you pop down to your local Tech college they may give a Chrissy discount on an e-mail course. It shouldn't knock too big a hole in your end or year bonus
Watch that reply button now!!
Bemused MP
If you pop down to your local Tech college they may give a Chrissy discount on an e-mail course. It shouldn't knock too big a hole in your end or year bonus
Watch that reply button now!!
Bemused MP
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What's the problem? Reg seemed entirely right to me. He has a responsibility to back the right causes with other members' money. It is common sense, and he seems to be applying it well.
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Heres a story for you:
My company advises us of a discusion re salary reductions. BALPA is contacted, aranges a meeting with a few pilots and offers to email the outcome of said meeting to me if i provide my email address. Email address is provided but almost a week after the meeting still no email from BALPA. So i contact BALPA and they tell me they should have sent me an email but if i resubmit my address they will send it again. OK so i get the email (eventually)
Now this email tells me that another meeting was organised for the day after the first (hope youre keeping up with all this)This meeting was between BALPA and our MD and i was to expect the result of this meeting in (you guessed it) another email.
Surprise surprise a couple of weeks later still no email. So last monday i call BALPA and enquire about progress, the chap i need to speak to is unavailable and will contact me. I leave my number. Its now friday eve and i have been at home pretty much all week and still no call. Alright i have popped to the shops once or twice but even if i was totally unavilable they have my email address. just checked and my inbox is empty.
Guess what though i did get one letter from BALPA this week..... it was a letter advising that the subs dept had checked with my employer and as my salary had gone up so would my subscriptions!!!
suffice to say i am now reviewing my membership position.
My company advises us of a discusion re salary reductions. BALPA is contacted, aranges a meeting with a few pilots and offers to email the outcome of said meeting to me if i provide my email address. Email address is provided but almost a week after the meeting still no email from BALPA. So i contact BALPA and they tell me they should have sent me an email but if i resubmit my address they will send it again. OK so i get the email (eventually)
Now this email tells me that another meeting was organised for the day after the first (hope youre keeping up with all this)This meeting was between BALPA and our MD and i was to expect the result of this meeting in (you guessed it) another email.
Surprise surprise a couple of weeks later still no email. So last monday i call BALPA and enquire about progress, the chap i need to speak to is unavailable and will contact me. I leave my number. Its now friday eve and i have been at home pretty much all week and still no call. Alright i have popped to the shops once or twice but even if i was totally unavilable they have my email address. just checked and my inbox is empty.
Guess what though i did get one letter from BALPA this week..... it was a letter advising that the subs dept had checked with my employer and as my salary had gone up so would my subscriptions!!!
suffice to say i am now reviewing my membership position.
Chief PPRuNe Pilot
FYI, ALPL who the IPA use for their legal protection have exactly the same clause regarding 'lost causes'. No legal protection is going to protect you if your case is obviously flawed and has no chance of success so those of you having a go at BALPA legal protection have absolutely no idea what you are harping on about.
Also, as a BALPA member I had only been with them a few months when the company I was flying for suffered a tragic crash and I had to be interviewed by the police on behalf of the coroner because of a statement by a pax on a flight the previous day where I had been F/O to the Capt who was killed in the crash and had alleged we had said something. I immediately contacted BALPA who put me in touch with the lawyers and although there was no need for them in the end it was reassuring to get useful advice as soon as it was required and that in itself made my mind up to remain a member. It only takes one idiot who wants to be in the limelight to make something up about you and you do not realise how deep in the brown stuff you can find yourself.
Aside from that I have been on the BALPA Airworthiness Study Group, one of many groups of pilots who are involved with various aspects of our business and having seen some of the many other things that BALPA do to make sure our jobs are as safe and protected as can be with their other lobby groups it never ceases to amaze me how some of you resort to statements of which you have no idea what you harp on about! There is a lot more to BALPA than legal protection. You would do well to find out how BALPA started and why!
I have no problem with people criticising BALPA where necessary and allow it on here but in this instance to read how some of you are having a go at someone for an error with their email you should see some of the stuff I get from many of you out there who are luddites of the n'th degree and I could have a field day with some of the hundreds of emails that arrive here at PPRuNe Towers every day from supposedly professionals who handle multi million pound/dollar heavy metal but when it comes to using a computer they are not the sharpest tool in the box!
Yes, BALPA has made some faux pas in the past and have paid the price but hopefully they have also learnt from any mistakes. They do not get off scott free because of the debates on this forum but some of you need to seriously grow up and research a bit more before spouting off as some of the replies on this thread indicate!
Also, as a BALPA member I had only been with them a few months when the company I was flying for suffered a tragic crash and I had to be interviewed by the police on behalf of the coroner because of a statement by a pax on a flight the previous day where I had been F/O to the Capt who was killed in the crash and had alleged we had said something. I immediately contacted BALPA who put me in touch with the lawyers and although there was no need for them in the end it was reassuring to get useful advice as soon as it was required and that in itself made my mind up to remain a member. It only takes one idiot who wants to be in the limelight to make something up about you and you do not realise how deep in the brown stuff you can find yourself.
Aside from that I have been on the BALPA Airworthiness Study Group, one of many groups of pilots who are involved with various aspects of our business and having seen some of the many other things that BALPA do to make sure our jobs are as safe and protected as can be with their other lobby groups it never ceases to amaze me how some of you resort to statements of which you have no idea what you harp on about! There is a lot more to BALPA than legal protection. You would do well to find out how BALPA started and why!
I have no problem with people criticising BALPA where necessary and allow it on here but in this instance to read how some of you are having a go at someone for an error with their email you should see some of the stuff I get from many of you out there who are luddites of the n'th degree and I could have a field day with some of the hundreds of emails that arrive here at PPRuNe Towers every day from supposedly professionals who handle multi million pound/dollar heavy metal but when it comes to using a computer they are not the sharpest tool in the box!
Yes, BALPA has made some faux pas in the past and have paid the price but hopefully they have also learnt from any mistakes. They do not get off scott free because of the debates on this forum but some of you need to seriously grow up and research a bit more before spouting off as some of the replies on this thread indicate!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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well said all .What has BALPA for us, even the romans got a better deal !.
As for us flight engineers what have balpa done for us ? over to you chris.
(membership renewal save £50 per month sounds good to me )
As for us flight engineers what have balpa done for us ? over to you chris.
(membership renewal save £50 per month sounds good to me )
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Yes Danny, BALPA do use the same legal sources as the IPA, TGU and even your legal cover from your house or other insurer, the difference is the cost and it's a big difference. As for protecting our interests, the IPA is much more 'hands on' than the politically inclined BALPA, they prevented BA hiring American pilots when BALPA waived the idea through, they also address the thorny issue of flagging out vigorously. BALPA are in many respects reminiscent of the old style unions.
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Well said. BALPA do not always listento its members. why should we the membership pay 1% of our hardearned to receive little or no representation.Does anyone know what the ATC guys pay or those who are at the first rung of the ladder of aviation yet pay nothing .
Join Date: Jul 2000
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So how come nearly every other professional union in the land charges only £60 or £70 pa in subs (including the PFA!!!) yet many BALPA members are paying that much per month?
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Hot Wings ]
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Hot Wings ]
Uncle Pete
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They are a business and need an income to provide all their services and pay their staff.
When you splash out £100K plus for a head man what are the minions paid? Their location does not lend itself to a low cost base. Perhaps a trading estate with cheapo office space, cheap council tax etc etc may be the answer.
You must ask yourself how many people actually visit New Road, apart from the staff?
MP
When you splash out £100K plus for a head man what are the minions paid? Their location does not lend itself to a low cost base. Perhaps a trading estate with cheapo office space, cheap council tax etc etc may be the answer.
You must ask yourself how many people actually visit New Road, apart from the staff?
MP
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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OK Guys; who does IPA have negotiating rights with?
What really pi$$e$ me off is:
1 People who freeload in a BALPA airline and
2 Those who moan about the 1%. Without exception those paying the 1% get more back in improved pay and conditions than those who are in companies where BALPA is not present.
Yes, BALPA get it wrong sometimes and yes CD does get well paid but there again I don’t do too badly myself, thanks to a high percentage of members and a hardworking CC. (Yes I know they don’t please all the people all the time) I have been a member for longer than most and I have felt sufficiently strongly in the past about the 1% to put a private members motion to the Annual Conference.
Personally I think that BALPA are quite justified in denying legal representation to people who join after the event. I would in fact go further and say that they should not have anything to do with a pilot who is not a member, even when by doing so it increases the legal costs; which was the case at Kegworth.
If you are going to moan about BALPA at least tell us what company you are in, which in my case is "BY".
What really pi$$e$ me off is:
1 People who freeload in a BALPA airline and
2 Those who moan about the 1%. Without exception those paying the 1% get more back in improved pay and conditions than those who are in companies where BALPA is not present.
Yes, BALPA get it wrong sometimes and yes CD does get well paid but there again I don’t do too badly myself, thanks to a high percentage of members and a hardworking CC. (Yes I know they don’t please all the people all the time) I have been a member for longer than most and I have felt sufficiently strongly in the past about the 1% to put a private members motion to the Annual Conference.
Personally I think that BALPA are quite justified in denying legal representation to people who join after the event. I would in fact go further and say that they should not have anything to do with a pilot who is not a member, even when by doing so it increases the legal costs; which was the case at Kegworth.
If you are going to moan about BALPA at least tell us what company you are in, which in my case is "BY".
Uncle Pete
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Vee2
I think that you may have missed one of the edicts of BALPA in that THEY decide whether you get legal assistance regardless of the length of membership or if you were a member at the time.
It may well be that had you been a member when your initial problems arose they would have declined to help. That is something we will never know! If in THEIR opinion you haven't got a cat in hell's chance of winning.....
In the meantime, hang in there and don't lose faith, difficult but it's worth it in the long run.
MP
I think that you may have missed one of the edicts of BALPA in that THEY decide whether you get legal assistance regardless of the length of membership or if you were a member at the time.
It may well be that had you been a member when your initial problems arose they would have declined to help. That is something we will never know! If in THEIR opinion you haven't got a cat in hell's chance of winning.....
In the meantime, hang in there and don't lose faith, difficult but it's worth it in the long run.
MP
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The free-loading charge is frequently levelled against ... er, free-loaders. May I respond?
Firstly, an open-ended 1% strikes me as too much. What that means is that, for every 100 pilots, the organisation can employ one person at their average salary. Does a union really need to be staffed / have overheads at that level? The IPA manages with £60 per member maximum - plus I think a proposed £5 per month for the union side. This seems to be a lot more closely connected with an organisation of people who are there firstly to help one another, than an organisation which exists to support itself.
Secondly, as far as freeloading is concerned. People who aren't in the union have no say in the pay/conditions debate, so they have no right to have their voice heard. I think that for the most part they accept this. However, at the end of the day, a company has to agree terms and conditions with somebody. If they can't negotiate with a union, they will have to work something out. Whilst it might be OK to impose terms and conditions when there is an abundance of pilots, it won't be so great for the airline if as soon as good times come, everyone employed by them says, "Your terms and conditions suck. I quit!" So there is a balance of interests that means that whoever a company negotiates with, it should end up with something sensible in the long term.
Thirdly, I have always been responsible for my own actions. I am philosophically uneasy about the idea that, if I do something wrong, or dodgy, then something bigger than me (other than my employer) should carry the burden for it. So I have always been uneasy about the whole legal protection side of things. I think as people who are accountable for every landing, there should be a bias to this amongst pilots anyway. On the other hand, certain employers have, in the past, had a tendency to sack first and pick up the tab for compensation afterwards, if they can get away with it. So this attitude might one day lose me a job ....
Firstly, an open-ended 1% strikes me as too much. What that means is that, for every 100 pilots, the organisation can employ one person at their average salary. Does a union really need to be staffed / have overheads at that level? The IPA manages with £60 per member maximum - plus I think a proposed £5 per month for the union side. This seems to be a lot more closely connected with an organisation of people who are there firstly to help one another, than an organisation which exists to support itself.
Secondly, as far as freeloading is concerned. People who aren't in the union have no say in the pay/conditions debate, so they have no right to have their voice heard. I think that for the most part they accept this. However, at the end of the day, a company has to agree terms and conditions with somebody. If they can't negotiate with a union, they will have to work something out. Whilst it might be OK to impose terms and conditions when there is an abundance of pilots, it won't be so great for the airline if as soon as good times come, everyone employed by them says, "Your terms and conditions suck. I quit!" So there is a balance of interests that means that whoever a company negotiates with, it should end up with something sensible in the long term.
Thirdly, I have always been responsible for my own actions. I am philosophically uneasy about the idea that, if I do something wrong, or dodgy, then something bigger than me (other than my employer) should carry the burden for it. So I have always been uneasy about the whole legal protection side of things. I think as people who are accountable for every landing, there should be a bias to this amongst pilots anyway. On the other hand, certain employers have, in the past, had a tendency to sack first and pick up the tab for compensation afterwards, if they can get away with it. So this attitude might one day lose me a job ....