Easyjet disruptive passengers
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I fly a fair amount as a passenger only but do not presume to comment on what whichever member of the cockpit crew may have done in the OP's case - I know my place! However, even though flying clearly falls more into the "Public Transport" model now than it did in my youth and is beset, justifiably or not, with the pre-boarding hassle of which others here make so much, I am with gcal. In my experience the low cost model is almost always unfairly criticised, perhaps sometimes by those who have an axe to grind, or maybe they don't pay their own full fares. I almost exclusively fly with the orange line and do so many, many times each year - as do my family. I am continually delighted by their efficiency, good sense and the personal charm of their staff. My daughter had to change aircraft last week at Stansted due to mechanical failure. She had the common sense to be delighted to be given the opportunity to use an aircraft which met requirements. There was an aircraft ready and a replacement crew to hand. Nothing got lost and she arrived here about ninety minutes late. Given that they spent a little time trying to fix things at first, I don't see how one could expect better. She tells me that, after a public groan, the passengers went with the flow with no fuss at all.
Mind you, I don't feel that I'm treated like cattle with that airline so perhaps nobody felt resentful in the slightest. I like low cost flying and my experience has been that I always get rather more than it says on the tin. New rules seem to have more or less sorted my only quibble which was with the inflation of the ticket price as one finalises the booking process but then I knew to expect it anyway.
I know I have strayed from the OP's line of thinking and I apologise for that but nearly everyone else already had wandered before me! I have no link to the airline other than as a perfectly happy frequent passenger - just like gcal, I suspect.
Mind you, I don't feel that I'm treated like cattle with that airline so perhaps nobody felt resentful in the slightest. I like low cost flying and my experience has been that I always get rather more than it says on the tin. New rules seem to have more or less sorted my only quibble which was with the inflation of the ticket price as one finalises the booking process but then I knew to expect it anyway.
I know I have strayed from the OP's line of thinking and I apologise for that but nearly everyone else already had wandered before me! I have no link to the airline other than as a perfectly happy frequent passenger - just like gcal, I suspect.
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Easy, Vueling and BA are the three airlines I use most. They each have their own character and pros' and cons'.
I tend to fly out of London and Barcelona mostly and in all honesty have had very little reason to complain. Plus, though I have had indifferent flights I've rarely had a bad one. What problems there have been have generally been sorted out pretty efficiently.
Yes some of the ground staff/cabin crew, and pilots look not old enough to be out by themselves! But then time marches on.
I get a reasonable product for a decent price.
I tend to fly out of London and Barcelona mostly and in all honesty have had very little reason to complain. Plus, though I have had indifferent flights I've rarely had a bad one. What problems there have been have generally been sorted out pretty efficiently.
Yes some of the ground staff/cabin crew, and pilots look not old enough to be out by themselves! But then time marches on.
I get a reasonable product for a decent price.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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if you encourage passengers to drink for a couple of hours before boarding what do you expect?
Cut check-in times and return airports to places to fly from rather than shop and drink in.................
Worst lot I ever saw was an icelandair flight at Schipol - security had fenced the whole flight in around one bar and everyone over the age of 14 was flinging it down like lunatics. the security guy told me "they're allways like this - no trouble but completely out of their minds by the time the plane leaves..........."
Cut check-in times and return airports to places to fly from rather than shop and drink in.................
Worst lot I ever saw was an icelandair flight at Schipol - security had fenced the whole flight in around one bar and everyone over the age of 14 was flinging it down like lunatics. the security guy told me "they're allways like this - no trouble but completely out of their minds by the time the plane leaves..........."
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if you encourage passengers to drink for a couple of hours before boarding what do you expect?
Cut check-in times and return airports to places to fly from rather than shop and drink in.................
Worst lot I ever saw was an icelandair flight at Schipol - security had fenced the whole flight in around one bar and everyone over the age of 14 was flinging it down like lunatics. the security guy told me "they're allways like this - no trouble but completely out of their minds by the time the plane leaves..........."
Cut check-in times and return airports to places to fly from rather than shop and drink in.................
Worst lot I ever saw was an icelandair flight at Schipol - security had fenced the whole flight in around one bar and everyone over the age of 14 was flinging it down like lunatics. the security guy told me "they're allways like this - no trouble but completely out of their minds by the time the plane leaves..........."
I've still got the itinerary from a school trip many moons ago. A coach to leave deepest south London at 0730 for a 0930 flight from LHR.
Ok there was less traffic and less pax flying but the time scale would be almost unbelievable these days.
At AMS they generally do security by flight at the gate, there being no central security area. Which is a very different set up to that generally found in the UK and elsewhere.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Obviously there are a number of reasons why passangers act in a disruptive manner and a number of threats they represent.
The reality is that in many cases it takes about a 10 seconds intevention by the Captain to convert the trouble maker into a meek&mild non event. In the pre 9-11 days it would have been viewed as a very standard way of dealing with the problem.
Of course this doesn't detract from the current situation where we have to assume it's a decoy for a greater threat so flight crew should no be leaving the flight deck in these circumstance. But those that are saying the Capt will have no better ability than the cabin crew to control trouble makers are pretty ignorant.
The reality is that in many cases it takes about a 10 seconds intevention by the Captain to convert the trouble maker into a meek&mild non event. In the pre 9-11 days it would have been viewed as a very standard way of dealing with the problem.
Of course this doesn't detract from the current situation where we have to assume it's a decoy for a greater threat so flight crew should no be leaving the flight deck in these circumstance. But those that are saying the Capt will have no better ability than the cabin crew to control trouble makers are pretty ignorant.
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I ain't gettin outa my seat. There are specific procedures for disruptive pax at the Aussie company I fly for and all flight and cabin crew are fully aware of and trained for. Unfortunately LCC around the world attract these morons but excessive alcohol or drugs in an aircraft is not a good combination and should not be tolerated. The law in general needs to be tougher.
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New era
The last thing a pilot should do is to leave the flight deck to fix an issue like an unruly pax., not just for security reasons, but to avoid a total loss of authority. Period.
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I am there to operate the Aircraft in a safe manner according to all the rules of aviation...airspace and sops and manufacturers guidelines etc etc etc....there is no way in the world I would ever come out of the flight deck to attend to any situation in the cabin.....there are all the normal procedures in place and CC training and if after all this the situation cannot still be contained/resolved depending on the situation I will divert but going out of the flight deck in flight is certainly not something any pilot should be doing...and if i was a pax on this flight its certainly not something i would even want to see.
CC can try and resolve etc using their training and sops and procedures..they can give the pax the written warning from the captain explaining that if they don't comply the aircraft maybe diverted or they may be arrested on arrival. CC can ask for assistance from pax if required....and if i was to intervene at all the only thing I would do is from the flight deck make a PA to remind the pax that this is the Captain speaking and if you dont comply with the instructions of the CC then I will have no choice but to divert immediately and hand the matter over to the airport police etc...but opening that door is 100% never going to be an option...it might be a ploy with a group of 4 terrorist onboard...one play the fool and lets hope the Captain comes out as the others are seated in row 1 ready to charge the door...anyone leaving the flight deck should give their licence back.
CC can try and resolve etc using their training and sops and procedures..they can give the pax the written warning from the captain explaining that if they don't comply the aircraft maybe diverted or they may be arrested on arrival. CC can ask for assistance from pax if required....and if i was to intervene at all the only thing I would do is from the flight deck make a PA to remind the pax that this is the Captain speaking and if you dont comply with the instructions of the CC then I will have no choice but to divert immediately and hand the matter over to the airport police etc...but opening that door is 100% never going to be an option...it might be a ploy with a group of 4 terrorist onboard...one play the fool and lets hope the Captain comes out as the others are seated in row 1 ready to charge the door...anyone leaving the flight deck should give their licence back.
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those that are saying the Capt will have no better ability than the cabin crew to control trouble makers are pretty ignorant.
Often, a meaasage from the Captain relayed through the CC is enough. When one pax was causing trouble, I sent a message back that we would divert if the trouble continued and as the nearest airport was Irkutsk, the passenger could explain his actions to the Russian Police on landing. The thought of a Siberian prison was enough to make him calm down.
I work for a company where Pilot presence outside of the flightdeck is actually rewarded and encouraged, in effect, by winning the accolade of being a "customer orientated people person"...you can even win a trip to Disney, if enough of your pals nominate you! Draw your own conclusions......
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those that are saying the Capt will have no better ability than the cabin crew to control trouble makers are pretty ignorant.
Actual example: Single mother insists on repeatedly letting 2 year old toddle around the Cabin (during taxi, initial climb and a patch of turnbulence. Cabin crew return the toddler and tell mother to secure it. As soon as they leave her, mother releases the kid again. Crew advise me. I assess zero physical threat but real risk of unsecure cabin during approach/landing so I amble back and have a quite, polite but very firm word. Problem solved.
Also note that I am writing in the pre 9-11 context. As I very clearly stated (but you chose not to quote) in these days the risk of it being a decoy means that no-one should leave the flight deck during a disruptive passenger incident. The industry has quite correctly responded with SOP changes and warning letters for handout etc.
I work for a company where Pilot presence outside of the flightdeck is actually rewarded and encouraged, in effect, by winning the accolade of being a "customer orientated people person"...you can even win a trip to Disney, if enough of your pals nominate you! Draw your own conclusions......
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I had always the opinion that a Capt. should never leave the cockpit. Never.
The cabin crew has a Purser who is the person trained and entitled by the company to access these situations.
If the purser is having problems to dela with it , and I`m still on ground pax stays on ground. I don`t even see him. Just call the police. And they take him/her.
Once , bound to S.Tomé and Prince , one became violent , I asked two mail flight attendants to retain him.He finished the flight laid in the aft galley.Police upon arrival.
Another flight. Flight was delayed 20 hours.A group of about 10 guys entered shouting and saying they would be a motin on board. Purser to came to cockpit. I told her to tell them to sit down, shut up and behave as everyone else. They refused and kept disturbing. All group stayed on ground. Never saw them.
Cabin crew are trained to deal these situations. If they are not managed to do it , it means the situation has exceded the reasonability.Time to call police.
The Capt has nothing to do in the cabin.
The cabin crew has a Purser who is the person trained and entitled by the company to access these situations.
If the purser is having problems to dela with it , and I`m still on ground pax stays on ground. I don`t even see him. Just call the police. And they take him/her.
Once , bound to S.Tomé and Prince , one became violent , I asked two mail flight attendants to retain him.He finished the flight laid in the aft galley.Police upon arrival.
Another flight. Flight was delayed 20 hours.A group of about 10 guys entered shouting and saying they would be a motin on board. Purser to came to cockpit. I told her to tell them to sit down, shut up and behave as everyone else. They refused and kept disturbing. All group stayed on ground. Never saw them.
Cabin crew are trained to deal these situations. If they are not managed to do it , it means the situation has exceded the reasonability.Time to call police.
The Capt has nothing to do in the cabin.
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A friend of mine, also an F.O. as gentle as a lamb, but very large in stature,
got up out of his seat, picked up the crash axe and slowly and impressively strolled down the aisle with it in his hand.
The cabin went absolutely silent, and the troublemakers retook there seats and behaved beautifully from then on.
got up out of his seat, picked up the crash axe and slowly and impressively strolled down the aisle with it in his hand.
The cabin went absolutely silent, and the troublemakers retook there seats and behaved beautifully from then on.
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As I was not there I cannot be certain, but consider this. I am prepared for a bit of flak and abuse for this post.
The Captain should not leave the flight deck for all sorts of good reasons, but the modern low coat airline doesn't always select the best leaders for cabin crew. Locos are well staffed by eager young people, but they are not necessarily blessed with age, maturity and experience of dealing with stroppy, argumentative passengers. It may be that the Captain was having to make up
for the inability of the cabin crew to deal with the situation, or the inexperience or the youth, and immaturity of an otherwise able stewardess.
The cheap availability of high volume air transport has not only lowered the "quality" of the passengers.
The Captain should not leave the flight deck for all sorts of good reasons, but the modern low coat airline doesn't always select the best leaders for cabin crew. Locos are well staffed by eager young people, but they are not necessarily blessed with age, maturity and experience of dealing with stroppy, argumentative passengers. It may be that the Captain was having to make up
for the inability of the cabin crew to deal with the situation, or the inexperience or the youth, and immaturity of an otherwise able stewardess.
The cheap availability of high volume air transport has not only lowered the "quality" of the passengers.
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Fair points but it should be remembered that it is not only the low cost carriers that are employing young people with little track record of people contact.
A certain large airline employs cabin crew supervisors straight off the street, and it shows!
A certain large airline employs cabin crew supervisors straight off the street, and it shows!