China Eastern takes off without permission in apparent misunderstanding
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China Eastern takes off without permission in apparent misunderstanding
From the Wall Street Journal:
English Lessons for China Airline After Unauthorized Take Off - China Real Time Report - WSJ
China Eastern Airlines is pledging to improve the English-language skills of its crew following an incident in the Japanese city of Osaka where a Shanghai-bound China Eastern flight took off apparently without permission from the tower, in what may have been a simple case of broken communication between the pilot and controllers.
Last edited by Eboy; 1st Dec 2011 at 10:11. Reason: typo
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I sometimes have a problem with the accents in KIX but the controllers there and elsewhere in Japan are excellent from my experience.
I still hate those conditional runway clearances, 'behind landing traffic, line up and wait'. Sometimes you get them with traffic rolling out and another plane on final.
And, some of my fellow Americans are still very casual with the readbacks, the CB radio craze ended in the '70's but you'd never know it listening to the transmissions.
'Delta 280, line up and wait runway 02 left'
'Uh, 280 clear to go'
'Negative Delta 280, I say again, line up and wait runway 02 left!'
'OK, 280 on the hold'
I still hate those conditional runway clearances, 'behind landing traffic, line up and wait'. Sometimes you get them with traffic rolling out and another plane on final.
And, some of my fellow Americans are still very casual with the readbacks, the CB radio craze ended in the '70's but you'd never know it listening to the transmissions.
'Delta 280, line up and wait runway 02 left'
'Uh, 280 clear to go'
'Negative Delta 280, I say again, line up and wait runway 02 left!'
'OK, 280 on the hold'
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Out of interest what does the tower normally do if they see one "going for it" without permission? Do they allow it to continue unless unsafe?
As a native English speaker it's easy to criticise poor language skills and communications from others but I try to imagine what it would be like if I had to use another language to do the job!
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Well, as someone who has experience with both sides of the party, I will have to side with the controller on this one. I am an American who works in Japan and don't have any problems with the Japanese ATC here.
I also worked as a flight instructor in the late 90's doing instruction for China Eastern airlines's new hire cadets in Florida. Their English skills were non-existent. Apparently they haven't improved at all. We had students departing without clearances then also.
I also worked as a flight instructor in the late 90's doing instruction for China Eastern airlines's new hire cadets in Florida. Their English skills were non-existent. Apparently they haven't improved at all. We had students departing without clearances then also.
Last edited by jrmyl; 3rd Dec 2011 at 00:19.
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Is it true, or just urban myth, that Chinese cadets at a certain integrated school are provided as a matter of course with Level 6 english language certificates regardless of ability, by way of an incentive to entice business through the door?
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Being based in USA, the UK and now SE Asia, I think I've seen plenty, in this neighborhood the Japanese have the hardest time with pronunciation. I think ATC specialists are supposed to be level 5 or better.
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Dreamland : Minimum is level 4 , not 5 , and, as it is a licence matter, whose issuance is done by a State authority, not a flying school.
Thanks you for your interest in aviation, but why don't you just read and learn here instead of posting ?
Thanks you for your interest in aviation, but why don't you just read and learn here instead of posting ?
As a current Australia based flight instructor who is currently training Chinese cadets, I am horrified to read that even 1 school is handing out level 6 english assesments without the student reaching those levels.
I have trained cadets for China Southern, China Eastern, Juneayo, Shen Fung, Shenzhen and a few others I cant remember. They all can speak english by the time they leave Aus, while not using complicated words, they do have a vocabulary such that i can talk to them for hrs on end on diverse subjects as aviation, social issues, politics, family life with more than a few dirty jokes thrown in for good measure.
In fact most of them have english skills better than many of the born and bred Aussies who populate the suburbs surrounding the airport.
I do hope this is not typical of US flight schools.
I have trained cadets for China Southern, China Eastern, Juneayo, Shen Fung, Shenzhen and a few others I cant remember. They all can speak english by the time they leave Aus, while not using complicated words, they do have a vocabulary such that i can talk to them for hrs on end on diverse subjects as aviation, social issues, politics, family life with more than a few dirty jokes thrown in for good measure.
In fact most of them have english skills better than many of the born and bred Aussies who populate the suburbs surrounding the airport.
I do hope this is not typical of US flight schools.
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ATC, please advise me about all of your experience operating here in Asia, I've been operating throughout Asia for 7+ years, waiting to be enlightened.
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Not siding with anyone here, but the controllers in Japan speak some of the worst English on the planet.
Obviously Japanese controllers have an accent (who doesn't?!) but IMHO they really make an effort to speak clearly and concise and on top of that they also speak English to Japanese airlines which aids situational awareness.
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What a load of nonsense, but hey what do I know: the company I work for flies worldwide, not just in Asia.
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but hey what do I know:
