AMR Corp files bankruptcy in New York
Join Date: Aug 2005
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In about march 2003 all AA employees took a 23% pay cut to avoid bankrupsy. Then they gave all their management people giant bonuses for running the company so efficiently.
Now AA is in BK. Poor management, not employee greed caused this. Now the employees are taking the hit again while Arpy runs off with his golden parachute to his new job day after tomorrow. Too bad pilots can't do the same but we can't. MBA's obviouly pay much much better then ATP's.
Take your kids out of Embry Riddle learning how to fly jets and send them to Harvard for an MBA and make the megabucks.
Now AA is in BK. Poor management, not employee greed caused this. Now the employees are taking the hit again while Arpy runs off with his golden parachute to his new job day after tomorrow. Too bad pilots can't do the same but we can't. MBA's obviouly pay much much better then ATP's.
Take your kids out of Embry Riddle learning how to fly jets and send them to Harvard for an MBA and make the megabucks.
Paxing All Over The World
galaxy flyer Thanks. I guess I was confusing the event with the Reagan/ATC event? I also note that it was a Democrat, Clinton, that repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, so they obviously have a talent for it.
Last edited by PAXboy; 30th Nov 2011 at 03:18.
Mind you, I'm not excusing the Republicans, both parties aren't deep in cahoots with business--classic crony capitalism. We need to remove government's powers so business isn't rent-seeking all the time. Right now, the US Ex-Im Bank is subsidizing planes for AI creating havoc on the subcontinent's airline pricing. It's growing at 10% per year and everyone is losing money.
Paxing All Over The World
So, galaxy flyer, do you mean that this ever faster grabbing for money could lead to a massive financial melt-down one day? And, where once some people made a lot of money, then a lot of people will lose a lot of money?! I do hope that never happens. (removes tongue from cheek) But, Yes, that will be human beings doing what we always do. 
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I am surprised at all the comments about what was the single cause of demise of American Airlines. I didn't know so many people here were privy to all this sensitive financial data. Burn the witch eh?
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The legacy airline model is TOAST !!! And AA is the last in the US to go down the drain......I hope with a not too battered pension scheme.
Next in line ??? European airlines and it will be bloody.
Kids, get yourself a MBA if you don't want to end up shoveling horse manure in Belmont Park between furloughs.
Next in line ??? European airlines and it will be bloody.
Kids, get yourself a MBA if you don't want to end up shoveling horse manure in Belmont Park between furloughs.
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Yeah an MBA so there can be more Lehman moments! Europe will soon become very familiar with bankruptcy.
Send your kids to N.D. and get 100,000 to start in the oilfields.
Send your kids to N.D. and get 100,000 to start in the oilfields.
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So if US Airways puts in an offer to buy AA and AA then becomes US Airways, how will the AA pilots look at seniority then? Will it be the TWA model or Air Cal or Reno Air.
Pay attention SWA, it is a cyclical business. What goes around comes around.
Pay attention SWA, it is a cyclical business. What goes around comes around.
It'll be a donnybrook, for sure. I suspect the East guys and the AA guys will team up against the West guys. The East/AA guys are probably pretty close in age distribution. The problem might be in joining APA and USAPA and which name Parker chooses to fly as the flag. AA might be the surviving name.
Psychophysiological entity
The wider point is why does this keep happening to airlines? It is surely the most disrupted industry of the modern age.
I always thought it a shame the crews were kind of weighed down from a professional status. God knows, their responsibility is greater than so many in a so-called top profession. It leaves them as just another potential cost-saving division of the business.
My last flight with AA was something that had to be endured. I'm not fat, but I do not come close to fitting in those implements of torture they call seats in coach. I was literally taking Paracetamol 6 hours into the flight because of the extreme discomfort/pain of being jammed into a seat suitable for a child. Coupled with this, the treatment of passengers has over the years, gone from not too bad, to a level of indifference I can hardly believe.
I dread my bi-annual UK_US commute.
What's more, in the event of an accident getting people out of a crush like that is just fantasy.
The years we spent making things pleasurable for ordinary passengers seems to have been totally forgotten. The Them and Us thinking, with First class, Business class, and that unmentionable lot down the back. is an exercise in humiliation. And that's before you even step on the aircraft.
It's not just the airlines management that's failing, but it's hard to see just what is causing everything to go wrong, though my ticket price breakdown is a clue.
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Kids, get yourself a MBA if you don't want to end up shoveling horse manure in Belmont Park between furloughs.
Studying law appears to be the safest ticket to gravy train these days.
There seems to be some confusion around what "Chapter 11 bankruptcy" for AMR means. It is not quite the same as what non-Americans associate with "bankruptcy". Chapter 11 is reorganizing while being protected from creditors. Chapter 7 is analogous to bankruptcy is the rest of world - eg split the assets between creditors and the last employer switches lights off permanently.
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BA/AA - No Way????
How is this going to affect Willy Walsh's much vaunted ( and much hated by The Bearded One) BA/AA tie up?
I hope it kills it dead - BA has its problems, but I shudder at the thought of buying a BA ticket to JFK and finding the service is operated by AA. No experience of long haul with them, but if their US 2.5 to 3 hr sector service is anything to go by - Lord help us.
I hope it kills it dead - BA has its problems, but I shudder at the thought of buying a BA ticket to JFK and finding the service is operated by AA. No experience of long haul with them, but if their US 2.5 to 3 hr sector service is anything to go by - Lord help us.
Thread Starter
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An AA twelve-year captain, and a twelve-year F/O, make a combined $344 US an hour.
That's (roughly) a dollar an hour for every seat in the back of the aircraft.
So on an eight hour slog across the atlantic, each passenger is paying less than ten dollars US for the flight crew's salaries. Add another ten for benefits and support, and another ten for the flight attendants. You're still at $30. Total. For the flight.
You could cut their pay to zero and it wouldn't make a dent in the thousand-dollar coach tickets in the back.
Is that any clearer?
That's (roughly) a dollar an hour for every seat in the back of the aircraft.
So on an eight hour slog across the atlantic, each passenger is paying less than ten dollars US for the flight crew's salaries. Add another ten for benefits and support, and another ten for the flight attendants. You're still at $30. Total. For the flight.
You could cut their pay to zero and it wouldn't make a dent in the thousand-dollar coach tickets in the back.
Is that any clearer?
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
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I hope some one is looking after the Pensions.
Judging from the United/Northwest/USAir et al experience of things, the pilot group is, henceforth, well and truly shafted. Professionals of the highest order, subverted into unskilled temp staff, expendable, pawns for the bean counters to move at will. Food stamps for all.
Meanwhile, Arpey has vacated the premises, in a really expensive car, with an obscenely massive golden parachute. I guess it wasn't really his fault though.
He's only human after all. Or is he?
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AA does note have any combination of 12 year CA and FO making close to $344 per hour.
A 20 year FO and a 30 year CA, 777 combo would be close to that.
Remember, the less AA pilots make, the less you make.
A 20 year FO and a 30 year CA, 777 combo would be close to that.
Remember, the less AA pilots make, the less you make.
Last edited by flyingchanges; 1st Dec 2011 at 12:51.