Mr Diamond in Virgin Flight Deck LOS-LHR?
Irishpilot,
I am slightly ashamed to say I habitually break the speed limit by considerably more than 1mph. Fast car, petrolhead, motorway commute, not enough hours in the day blah blah. Still have a clean licence though. I am also like most of us guilty of the odd minor SOP deviation and rule "flexing" at work. However allowing an unauthorised visitor to the cockpit whilst in flight would be regarded by my employer as gross misconduct which means job threatening, its in a different league.
Can't think of a single one, Fed Ex 705 in 94' was nearly bought down by someone who was legitimately on the flightdeck, look it up, nasty incident. The rules are over strict and not flexible enough and its a great shame we have lost the flexibility to offer the jumpseat to those in need of a lift home or who are genuinely interested in what goes on up front.
All a great pity but that's (post 9/11) life unfortunately.
Have you ever broken the speed limit? By even one mph??
How many aircrafts have been hijacked after a Cpt incorrectly allowed somebody on the deck
All a great pity but that's (post 9/11) life unfortunately.
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FR1A
They would probably have had a great deal to say about allowing a 15 year-old boy to sit at the controls.
(Particularly one who had either not been sufficiently briefed not to touch anything or was incapable of comprehending the importance of complying with such a simple instruction.)
They would probably have thought how extremely unlucky they were to be on that particular flight (in 1994) - given that thousands of passengers had been allowed into flight decks on other flights and with other airlines over several decades without any problems, and that thousands of others were after their deaths, also without incident.
Some of them, almost certainly, would want a total ban on access. Emotion understandably makes rational thinking much more difficult, sometimes impossible.
H.
I wonder what the 75 souls who perished on Aeroflot 593 would have to say about access to the flight deck.
(Particularly one who had either not been sufficiently briefed not to touch anything or was incapable of comprehending the importance of complying with such a simple instruction.)
They would probably have thought how extremely unlucky they were to be on that particular flight (in 1994) - given that thousands of passengers had been allowed into flight decks on other flights and with other airlines over several decades without any problems, and that thousands of others were after their deaths, also without incident.
Some of them, almost certainly, would want a total ban on access. Emotion understandably makes rational thinking much more difficult, sometimes impossible.
H.
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Inmates Running the Asylum.
For an explanation as to how we got to Sept 11th and subsequent events, please read "The New Pearl Harbour" by David Ray Griffin.
Then wonder why a 146/RJ or 737 flight deck is even more difficult to access when the jumpseat is rigged and occupied, yet the wise ones at DaFT discourage the use of this very useful barrier to the unwelcome attentions of our boxcutter fanatics.
As the creeping disease of EASA infects our industry, I am amazed we ever get off the ground with the plethora of rules & regs thought up by those who don't know the back end of an aeroplane from an APU.
We're stuck with this crazy legislation as long as those who occupy "Handbrake House" have some sort of right to legislate and direct our efforts to move bums/parcels from A to B. The latest madness from our own much-loved UK CAA, telling us all they don't & won't know if our licences are/will be valid when another bunch of distant bureaucrats takes over the asylum whilst charging us handsomely for the privilege, is just one more example of a once great industry going to rack and ruin.
Then wonder why a 146/RJ or 737 flight deck is even more difficult to access when the jumpseat is rigged and occupied, yet the wise ones at DaFT discourage the use of this very useful barrier to the unwelcome attentions of our boxcutter fanatics.
As the creeping disease of EASA infects our industry, I am amazed we ever get off the ground with the plethora of rules & regs thought up by those who don't know the back end of an aeroplane from an APU.
We're stuck with this crazy legislation as long as those who occupy "Handbrake House" have some sort of right to legislate and direct our efforts to move bums/parcels from A to B. The latest madness from our own much-loved UK CAA, telling us all they don't & won't know if our licences are/will be valid when another bunch of distant bureaucrats takes over the asylum whilst charging us handsomely for the privilege, is just one more example of a once great industry going to rack and ruin.
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I speak as a piece of highly-travelled SLF, with several acquaintances who are pilots with UA, AA, BA and LX.
I have heard many horror stories about crew from my friends, and have personally experienced dodgy spiral and high-gradient landings by certain small European airlines (pre 2001), as well as a number of very poor takeoffs and landings, emergency landings caused by engine failure and crew incompetence (e.g. setting the galley on fire), as well as two near-misses.
As SLF, I understand the safety percentages, and I don't consider flying as pax to be fun, in any shape or form. It is a pain in the ass, even when you turn left upon entry.
Footballers, bankers, and crew members' families are not acceptable on the flight deck. I only want safe, competent, balanced, *designated*, professional individuals in control areas when I am aboard.
And, following recent headlines about drunkenness and incompetence, clearly even some of them are incapable of good judgement.
I look for tight regulations to minimise all risks, and swift, serious punishment for those uniformed smartasses who think they know better.
I have heard many horror stories about crew from my friends, and have personally experienced dodgy spiral and high-gradient landings by certain small European airlines (pre 2001), as well as a number of very poor takeoffs and landings, emergency landings caused by engine failure and crew incompetence (e.g. setting the galley on fire), as well as two near-misses.
As SLF, I understand the safety percentages, and I don't consider flying as pax to be fun, in any shape or form. It is a pain in the ass, even when you turn left upon entry.
Footballers, bankers, and crew members' families are not acceptable on the flight deck. I only want safe, competent, balanced, *designated*, professional individuals in control areas when I am aboard.
And, following recent headlines about drunkenness and incompetence, clearly even some of them are incapable of good judgement.
I look for tight regulations to minimise all risks, and swift, serious punishment for those uniformed smartasses who think they know better.
Thread Starter
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Virgins' immature,under-qualified and self-protecting 'GMF' has issued an insulting email to the pilots which states that the company 'misinterprited' the rules relating to the use of jumpseats.
Yes,we all loath the legislation, but the fact is that Virgin would not only have fired ANY line pilot for this(Pablo).but would have taken great delight in doing so. A whitewash. A coverup. Disgusting.
Yes,we all loath the legislation, but the fact is that Virgin would not only have fired ANY line pilot for this(Pablo).but would have taken great delight in doing so. A whitewash. A coverup. Disgusting.
Last edited by President Bush; 31st Jul 2011 at 08:10.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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I can't help wondering if Mr Diamond was in fact less of a security risk than some of the people who are allowed into the FD during a flight.
Not questioning the rules you understand, just pointing out that Rules won't prevent terrorists getting access to the FD.
Not questioning the rules you understand, just pointing out that Rules won't prevent terrorists getting access to the FD.
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If the Prime Minister himself asked the answer would be no.
This would show up just how stupid 'our' DFT rules are.
Of course,
that might be what the captain had in mind all a long
This would show up just how stupid 'our' DFT rules are.
Of course,
that might be what the captain had in mind all a long
Last edited by nilcostoptionmyass; 2nd Aug 2011 at 13:46.
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I'm led to believe that the 'management' pilot who operated this flight with bob Diamond is the same person who took the England football team to South Africa.
Rumour has it that all interested pilots put their name into a hat to fly the team to SA. At check in the 'management' guy turned up, stood down the Captain who won the trip and flew it himself. Will the CAA do anything? Probably not.
It's no wonder the VS guys are a bit pi$$ed off with management!
Rumour has it that all interested pilots put their name into a hat to fly the team to SA. At check in the 'management' guy turned up, stood down the Captain who won the trip and flew it himself. Will the CAA do anything? Probably not.
It's no wonder the VS guys are a bit pi$$ed off with management!
Last edited by vsflight; 16th Aug 2011 at 09:47.
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I thank my luck that I now work in a country and for an airline that lets the Captian decide who can enter he flight deck, captains are expected to use good judgment but we don't have any stupid rules that have been written by civil servants who are just licking up to government ministers who are being driven by what the media might write or say.
It is such a refreshing change after being under the heel of the UK security fascists.
It is such a refreshing change after being under the heel of the UK security fascists.
On one of the several occasions that I carried Mr Diamond he was lucky he didn't visit the Captain in the flight deck while wearing handcuffs!
A more rude,obnoxious Premier passenger it would be hard to find. The purser working in the First class was near to tears after being called a **** on several occasions.
I had words with him but he just ignored me and waved me away.
A couple of days later,I read in the press that he had just lost his multi million pound bonus so I guess he was a bit p*****d off!
Funnily enough some time later I carried him again and was working with the same Purser fortunately he behaved and Purser in different cabin!
A more rude,obnoxious Premier passenger it would be hard to find. The purser working in the First class was near to tears after being called a **** on several occasions.
I had words with him but he just ignored me and waved me away.
A couple of days later,I read in the press that he had just lost his multi million pound bonus so I guess he was a bit p*****d off!
Funnily enough some time later I carried him again and was working with the same Purser fortunately he behaved and Purser in different cabin!
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Of all the things that helped convince me I wanted to fly was a jumpseat on a Stone Cutters approach to HKG (Caledonian 707).
I did what I was told and sat on my hands and marvelled.
From that day forward I never looked back.
These rules which seem peculiar to the UK and US are surely taking away some of the little boy magic.
Small wonder then if we end up with a shortage of pilots.
I did what I was told and sat on my hands and marvelled.
From that day forward I never looked back.
These rules which seem peculiar to the UK and US are surely taking away some of the little boy magic.
Small wonder then if we end up with a shortage of pilots.
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these rules are in general for the UK/US. In a land just across the water from the the UK Captains still authorise any one they want on the the flight deck, last month, today & tomorrow. Check to see if FO is happy & away you go! Not that long ago smoking was allowed on aircraft & it was considered normal, now light up on board & your off to jail. Flight deck visits were common in the UK, but the fluo jacket brigade have ruined it, like so much else!
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these rules are in general for the UK/US.
Está servira para distraerle.
Irrespective of the legalities, questions of charterer's rights and so on which are often open to constructive interpretation, I should have thought that no censure could be raised against a captain who refused cockpit access to a passenger who had, at the latest, consumed anything alcoholic on that flight?
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Medical Emergency
Interesting that some members think that a justified reason for allowing a passenger onto the flight deck would be in the event of a medical emergency (doctor or nurse speaking to the crew)
In my company's manual, the first action on being notified of a medical emergency, LOCKDOWN THE FLIGHT DECK, there is the possibility that it is a staged event to force the flight deck door to be opened.
I agree with the poster if a person is invited by the Captain, as opposed to inviting themselves they pose significantly less risk.
In my company's manual, the first action on being notified of a medical emergency, LOCKDOWN THE FLIGHT DECK, there is the possibility that it is a staged event to force the flight deck door to be opened.
I agree with the poster if a person is invited by the Captain, as opposed to inviting themselves they pose significantly less risk.
Last edited by PT6A; 14th Jul 2012 at 12:32.
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The CEO of my Airline recently went to our Regulating Authority to request an exemption.
He now carries an Authorization letter, giving him an exemption from the restrictions on Flight Deck access in-flight.
Problem solved for him to now ask for the Captains permission to visit the Flight deck.
The world has changed and we now live with a Flight Deck which is locked down. This is a great shame for many reasons. However, the security concerns are unlikely to go away, so we just need to accept that this is how we operate.
He now carries an Authorization letter, giving him an exemption from the restrictions on Flight Deck access in-flight.
Problem solved for him to now ask for the Captains permission to visit the Flight deck.
The world has changed and we now live with a Flight Deck which is locked down. This is a great shame for many reasons. However, the security concerns are unlikely to go away, so we just need to accept that this is how we operate.
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During 2002 I was flying for Easyjet and on a turnaround at Nice, Stelios turned up and requested the Flight Deck jump- seat. I replied sure but just needed authorisation from the Chief Pilot on the company mobile. The CP's secretary or similar answered and said she would just ask him - after a minute or two she returned and after a short pause she said .......he's not authorised!
I said ' you'd better not be joking 'cos he's right here' she confirmed that the CP would not authorise him. I let Stelios have the bad news which he took without comment and he ploncked himself down in one of the middle seats near the front, the only available seat!
In my opinion it was the right decision as he had no good reason for being there and I thought the CP showed guts in following the directive.
I said ' you'd better not be joking 'cos he's right here' she confirmed that the CP would not authorise him. I let Stelios have the bad news which he took without comment and he ploncked himself down in one of the middle seats near the front, the only available seat!
In my opinion it was the right decision as he had no good reason for being there and I thought the CP showed guts in following the directive.