The Greed at the Top of Air Canada
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The Greed at the Top of Air Canada
IMHO
It ceases to amaze me how this egocentric chappy does not seem to understand or comprehend that the very reason he arrived at No.1 was because all his colleagues, senior to him, retiring at age 60, with grace and humility, adhering to the mandatory retirement age in place at Air Canada and part of the Air Canada Pilots Collective Agreement at the time of their employment.
Pilot's at Air Canada, as I understand, have recently voted 82% status quo, in favour of maintaining the Age 60 mandatory rule!
Globe Investor - The Globe and Mail
It ceases to amaze me how this egocentric chappy does not seem to understand or comprehend that the very reason he arrived at No.1 was because all his colleagues, senior to him, retiring at age 60, with grace and humility, adhering to the mandatory retirement age in place at Air Canada and part of the Air Canada Pilots Collective Agreement at the time of their employment.
Pilot's at Air Canada, as I understand, have recently voted 82% status quo, in favour of maintaining the Age 60 mandatory rule!
Globe Investor - The Globe and Mail
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I wouldn't be so quick. Date of hire or similar should be the only criteria for a seniority list, unless merged where it's up to the unions to battle it out. As soon as you start entering merit into it...that's a pandora's box and you will forever and ever relegate the carrier into banana republic territory. It's like an Anal Oscar...upgrade for the rectal athletes able to crawl through the bowels of management and tickle the tonsils of the decision makers. That's the positive side, but what if you have to cull? Our assassination squad moved in and cleansed the fleet based on 'merit'. One fella had less than 6 weeks to retirement...it's hard to explain it to a wife whose husband was purged on account of someone who is lower on the totem pole but has merit.
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So you think that time in the company is the only criteria that is relevant in terms of seniority? What a load of horsesh*t!! So the oldest, most incompetant staff member should always be considered first over a much more capable younger member of staff? How utterly ridiculous...1960's union thinking if ever I heard it. The best person for the job should get the job regardless of age..no question.
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Seniority does have it's place at any legacy carrier. It seems though that what we have here, as I read from the newspaper article, is someone who has been at the top of the food chain, having been hired at 21 yrs of age and a 39 year career. Now with only 1 month remaining before mandatory retirement this lad is jumping up and down to stay, crying like a baby to stay in a position attained by the very fact that colleagues before him have retired graciously. Threatening his Union with legal action is tasteless and pompous. I say move over and pass the torch to younger colleagus who are waiting their turn..........there is life after flying!
But reset his DOJ to his 60th birthday.
I have worked for an airline where bidding and leave was based on a rotating seniority list. Every month the top 1/9th of the list was placed in reverse order on the bottom - thus the entire list rotated every 9 months (i.e. on top for xmas this year? Half way down next year & bottom the year after).
It shared the good and bad nicely across the group - and you didn't have to wait 30 years to see a Christmas at home, or a good four day slip.
Promotion, base bids & type changes were date of joining.
... Having said that, I would prefer a rotating list for leave & work bids, and a date-of-joining initial list for promotion/base bids, but with direct entry to initial position (based on hours) for experienced crew (i.e. you can hire a direct entry Captain or high-time FO, and place them into an appropriate position on the list, if you can show they have significantly more experience (say 150%) than the equivalent company employees).
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In Canada we are an ageing population, this SOB and others are using this to get on board the "Human Rights" bandwagon along with others to break the terms they were hired under and agreed to throughout their flying career, now when its time to go they want to change the rules! The vast majority of the pilots wish to maintain the great perk of going at sixty and having a life, this guy was hired at 21 without any real background {Nepotism?} so has no real experience outside the company, most of us were hired at between 27 and 35 with some fairly extensive flying histories. Im am tempted to use the great quote from Britains House of Commons used I belive to get Chamberlin on his way. "You have been too long around this place, in the name of God be gone!" As an end note he might like to check the average longevity of retired pilots in Canada, my own course reunion can now be held in a phone booth.
Last edited by clunckdriver; 27th Mar 2011 at 11:36.
Good Morning All:
Please visit the Canada link towards the bottom (Rest of the World and Non-English Forums) and look for "A Pilots Quest to Remain at the Top."
Later on you will find readers comments and the majority are far from complimentary, all current comments were copied and there was no attempt to put in comments to just support the article as some suggested. Please feel free to articulate your comments there to show the worlds interest in this article.
At one time there was nobility in the profession where the overwhelming attitude was to help the junior pilot. I could try to articulate the sentiment of the day but at this point I do not want to clutter this response.
I will not comment on the individuals desire to stay but I will say this when it came my turn to "pass the torch" I did it with pride as I knew I did not break the faith of those who preceded me.
Please visit the Canada link towards the bottom (Rest of the World and Non-English Forums) and look for "A Pilots Quest to Remain at the Top."
Later on you will find readers comments and the majority are far from complimentary, all current comments were copied and there was no attempt to put in comments to just support the article as some suggested. Please feel free to articulate your comments there to show the worlds interest in this article.
At one time there was nobility in the profession where the overwhelming attitude was to help the junior pilot. I could try to articulate the sentiment of the day but at this point I do not want to clutter this response.
I will not comment on the individuals desire to stay but I will say this when it came my turn to "pass the torch" I did it with pride as I knew I did not break the faith of those who preceded me.
Last edited by a330pilotcanada; 27th Mar 2011 at 14:49. Reason: Clarity
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http://www.pprune.org/canada/445444-...emain-top.html
Thanks A330pilotcanada. Seems you have the inside scoop on this Ennis chappy. Quite the selfish SOB. Frankly, I don't know how he is able to show his face in FLT Ops never mind sharing the cockpit with his colleagues!
Thanks A330pilotcanada. Seems you have the inside scoop on this Ennis chappy. Quite the selfish SOB. Frankly, I don't know how he is able to show his face in FLT Ops never mind sharing the cockpit with his colleagues!
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Your times come pal, someone elses turn at the top.
"i shouldn't have to leave Canada" - well don't would be my response. THY will be 'enlightening' I'm sure. I'll give you until your 61st birthday before your back across the pond vowing never to set foot in an aeroplane again!
"i shouldn't have to leave Canada" - well don't would be my response. THY will be 'enlightening' I'm sure. I'll give you until your 61st birthday before your back across the pond vowing never to set foot in an aeroplane again!
Your time's come pal, someone else's turn at the top.
Scene: Crew in DC-8 sim, approaching FAF on a dark and dirty night. Instructor at the console announces "Captain just slumped over the wheel, unresponsive."
F/O calls to Flt Engineer: "Help me get this SOB outta my seat".
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The best person for the job should get the job regardless of age..no question
Define "the best" exactly.
Is it best as defined by the corrupt chief pilot and his pet pilots..or his golf companions, or his wife's brothers son? Or the trainer who accepts a small bribe, or the manager who promotes the most company pro pilot, irrespective of safety concerns? Or the 22 year old who can fly a perfect ILS but has zero experience....How does experience fit in with this concept of best?
Or what?
Seniority, and a Command course has its problems, but the alternative is anarchy, and a thief's charter.
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Don't like the seniority system? Go fly corporate.
Before long you'll wish you were back in the seniority system.
Pilots are unique in that they have to be perfect. Every landing must be successful or you are out of a job, or dead.
There are rewards of a sort for above-average pilots, though. You can bid bigger planes or fly international instead of camping out on the narrow-body. You can get into training or standards. You can get into management. But the line pilots' skills need to be so similar one to the other that merit is meaningless.
And as an aside, I'd take the sixties over the naughties any day......
Before long you'll wish you were back in the seniority system.
Pilots are unique in that they have to be perfect. Every landing must be successful or you are out of a job, or dead.
There are rewards of a sort for above-average pilots, though. You can bid bigger planes or fly international instead of camping out on the narrow-body. You can get into training or standards. You can get into management. But the line pilots' skills need to be so similar one to the other that merit is meaningless.
And as an aside, I'd take the sixties over the naughties any day......
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A pilot is not past his "best by date" because he reaches 60.
Some of us are in good health (in fact, it seems the "cockpit slumps" occur to younger folks.. according to a recent research) and wish to go on past 60.
Unions with all of its evolutions and convolutions is just not my thing.
That said, the dude at AC benefitted from all the advantages of CALPA for a few decades... he should not complain much.
Some of us are in good health (in fact, it seems the "cockpit slumps" occur to younger folks.. according to a recent research) and wish to go on past 60.
Unions with all of its evolutions and convolutions is just not my thing.
That said, the dude at AC benefitted from all the advantages of CALPA for a few decades... he should not complain much.
what goes around comes around
There are two separate issues here, one using seniority for promotion and the second is using seniority for pay and benefits.
The AC situation is an inevitable consequence of a pay system that shafts the people at the bottom for the benefit of those above. This is consistent feature of union environments. (Might also explain unions losing power all over)
The AC list makes it so dammed good at the top that people are going to fight to stay. The AC pilots can fix this by going to a rotating bid system, something totally inside the realm of their contract and ensuring that joe senior gets to watch for sleighs every few years. Pay can be based on time in service. (note - that is not age, but time in)
Seniority for pay and promotions is a managers dream for two reasons. One is it solves a vexing and expensive problem, scheduling. The best part is it ties pilots to the company like nothing else.
The argument about seniority for promotions might have had its merits at one time but all sorts of industries deal with this without such a remedy. Command upgrades still require assessment and evaluation. The insurance companies and the regulators are going to be very interested in how this gets done. Also any real company is going to have written procedures in place and will follow them or spend years in court fighting discrimination cases. Again seniority based upgrades does management a favor as it saves them from actually having to develop policies and implement them. At the end of the day they are going to train X pilots and they better mostly pass so its only upside to the company to have the selection done for them.
I can see why people on the inside working their way up a long list are invested in the current system but overall it screws pilots like no other group I can think of. The sooner the whole thing is dumped the better. It seems Mr Ennis might be the poster boy for change. A "fair" roster at AC would benefit the majority of the pilots. Yes there will be no more glory days of being #1, but even in the old days that never lasted that long anyways. OTOH if you presented a deal to the current pilots that said:
1 - from now on you will get Xmas or NewYears at home for half of your remaining time at AC, if that is what you want
2 -your pay will still progress as under the current system
3 - The new system will give the fly till you die crowd a real incentive to leave (Not that it matters anymore)
I suspect you'd get a buy in from the majority.
The AC situation is an inevitable consequence of a pay system that shafts the people at the bottom for the benefit of those above. This is consistent feature of union environments. (Might also explain unions losing power all over)
The AC list makes it so dammed good at the top that people are going to fight to stay. The AC pilots can fix this by going to a rotating bid system, something totally inside the realm of their contract and ensuring that joe senior gets to watch for sleighs every few years. Pay can be based on time in service. (note - that is not age, but time in)
Seniority for pay and promotions is a managers dream for two reasons. One is it solves a vexing and expensive problem, scheduling. The best part is it ties pilots to the company like nothing else.
The argument about seniority for promotions might have had its merits at one time but all sorts of industries deal with this without such a remedy. Command upgrades still require assessment and evaluation. The insurance companies and the regulators are going to be very interested in how this gets done. Also any real company is going to have written procedures in place and will follow them or spend years in court fighting discrimination cases. Again seniority based upgrades does management a favor as it saves them from actually having to develop policies and implement them. At the end of the day they are going to train X pilots and they better mostly pass so its only upside to the company to have the selection done for them.
I can see why people on the inside working their way up a long list are invested in the current system but overall it screws pilots like no other group I can think of. The sooner the whole thing is dumped the better. It seems Mr Ennis might be the poster boy for change. A "fair" roster at AC would benefit the majority of the pilots. Yes there will be no more glory days of being #1, but even in the old days that never lasted that long anyways. OTOH if you presented a deal to the current pilots that said:
1 - from now on you will get Xmas or NewYears at home for half of your remaining time at AC, if that is what you want
2 -your pay will still progress as under the current system
3 - The new system will give the fly till you die crowd a real incentive to leave (Not that it matters anymore)
I suspect you'd get a buy in from the majority.
I agree.
Retirement at 50 or 55 wonīt do it for most (legacy carrier employees - Iīm not talking about the other folks!!) with divorces, kidīs education, multiple families to support but...
You just have to "get a life" way before retirement and commit at some point and and stop using the seniority system (IT WORKS!!) for whatever suits you.
"What am I to do at home?" just doesnīt cut it.
Stripes on the uniform, MATOW etc. just donīt cut it.
Human rights!!!???
So he will have to fly ex IST and communicate via Skype (he has to be stupid or cheap) just to wear his uniform and fly an A340!
IST is cool and he should savor the opportunity to make new experiencies (take the wifey along!!!), without having to think about existential fears regarding supporting his family.
Makes me want to throw up.
Retirement at 50 or 55 wonīt do it for most (legacy carrier employees - Iīm not talking about the other folks!!) with divorces, kidīs education, multiple families to support but...
You just have to "get a life" way before retirement and commit at some point and and stop using the seniority system (IT WORKS!!) for whatever suits you.
"What am I to do at home?" just doesnīt cut it.
Stripes on the uniform, MATOW etc. just donīt cut it.
Human rights!!!???
So he will have to fly ex IST and communicate via Skype (he has to be stupid or cheap) just to wear his uniform and fly an A340!
IST is cool and he should savor the opportunity to make new experiencies (take the wifey along!!!), without having to think about existential fears regarding supporting his family.
Makes me want to throw up.