Alcohol Testing of Flight Crew
No speedbird - I wasn't in uniform.
1.We had a stupid company rule that the Captain greeted the pax on boarding.
2. We had to collect our baggage with the Pax.
3. Occasionally one of the punters would hope to get his leg over one of the hostesses! The hotel was adjacent to the airport.
As to Bombay - never had a problem bringing booze in there - the CC always had a large bag of chocolates for customs and unlike your outfit we were NEVER searched.
Expect you would nowadays have a problem with the "brown milk" going into Aussie.
Remember the story that changed everything in my old company when a crew nicked most of the return bar for the week's layover in Banjul - and a lot of jock oil workers had to drink tea on the flight to the UK after a month on a dry oil rig!
happy days
1.We had a stupid company rule that the Captain greeted the pax on boarding.
2. We had to collect our baggage with the Pax.
3. Occasionally one of the punters would hope to get his leg over one of the hostesses! The hotel was adjacent to the airport.
As to Bombay - never had a problem bringing booze in there - the CC always had a large bag of chocolates for customs and unlike your outfit we were NEVER searched.
Expect you would nowadays have a problem with the "brown milk" going into Aussie.
Remember the story that changed everything in my old company when a crew nicked most of the return bar for the week's layover in Banjul - and a lot of jock oil workers had to drink tea on the flight to the UK after a month on a dry oil rig!
happy days
3. Occasionally one of the punters would hope to get his leg over one of the hostesses! The hotel was adjacent to the airport.
See a PM.
Friend was pilot on a small commuter aircraft tasked with bringing 4 Australian oil-rig workers back from Brunei to Singapore one day. When he got off he remarked to the hostess that he had taken, that they weren't very happy ?
No, she said, we ran out of beer, and it was a 1-1/2 hour flight, after they had been on the rig for 3 months.
How much beer did you load on, he said. 4 cans, she replied, 1 each !!!!
Next time, he said, load 4 crates !
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My airline (UK A340 operator) requires us to stand down after an alcohol test, regardless of outcome.
Hasn't happened to me (yet) but I bet it's stressful.
Hasn't happened to me (yet) but I bet it's stressful.
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Not that stressful when you are certain that you have not been drinking alcohol in the last 24 hours. Happened to me at LHR last year and I operated the flight as planned and felt no stress type after effects.
Why should some Control Freak Jobsworth effectively brand you a liar and make you prove otherwise with a 'clean' test ? Unless of course you will be breaking the law by refusing, as in a road side situation now. I'm out of it, so no problem for me, but has that situation reached flying yet ? and I sympathise with those now subjected to even more bureaucracy.
I'm NOT supporting any sort of 'right' to drink and fly, but what was once referred to as the coming of "1984" - or was it "Brave New World" -long past now of course ! - i.e. the State control of every action, and mental process, is slowly being forced upon us, witness the futility of the so called 'Security' checks that crew now have to put up with on a daily basis, crew who are actually at the forefront of the battle against airborne terrorism !! Total waste of time. ( and money )
Last edited by YorkshireTyke; 25th Feb 2011 at 21:33.
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drug and alcohol testing
For the past several years in the USA we have had post flight drug random drug and alcohol testing. I probably average a random test once or twice a year. You will also get tested post accident and for probable cause. Our union negotiated 30 minutes of pay per testing so I actually look forward to it.
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Here in Sweden its not only flight crew that are tested.
The police come on the airport regularly and stop all passing ramp vehicles for driver breathalyser tests.
Testing of flight crew is new, I have seen them twice in the last two months, but surprisingly they tested the crew that had landed, not the crew that were departing.
Out on the streets, random breathtesting is common. I personally have been stopped in an all cars roadblock and tested 3 times in the past year, two of them on the Motorway going home from work at 0100.
The police come on the airport regularly and stop all passing ramp vehicles for driver breathalyser tests.
Testing of flight crew is new, I have seen them twice in the last two months, but surprisingly they tested the crew that had landed, not the crew that were departing.
Out on the streets, random breathtesting is common. I personally have been stopped in an all cars roadblock and tested 3 times in the past year, two of them on the Motorway going home from work at 0100.
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Maybe I'm missing the point here, but just below this thread, there is an instance of a pilot falling asleep at the wheel (so to speak). Now, as one who has operated both long and short haul routes, I have spent in some years over 220 nights in hotels, sometime jet-lagged, sometimes not. But, if I were a passenger, I would much rather the pilot had a little alcohol in his/her system than had spent a sleepless night in a hotel. I have no idea what all these alcohol readings mean, but the idea of not drinking for 24 hours before flying seems crazy. One may not be able to drink for a whole week!
P.S. I am retired, so don't worry!
P.S. I am retired, so don't worry!
I would much rather the pilot had a little alcohol in his/her system than had spent a sleepless night in a hotel.
Testing the crew after a normal sector, with no irregularity, is just crass nonsense, testing a crew to - maybe - prevent a future incident is one thing, but are 'they' going to prosecute a crew for successfully completing a flight !! Would 'they' prefer that crew had crashed and killed everyone , but were stone cold sober, so that was alright ?
The World has truly Gone Mad.
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 27th Feb 2011 at 02:34.
...and what's more, not one RPT aircraft accident, in Australia at least, has ever had alcohol or drugs as a contributing factor. Non-RPT I cannot comment on, but I'm sure it's next to zero as well. How about elsewhere in the world, anybody (Russia excepted!)?
A friend with an AOC (just joy flights for Pete's sake) had to shut down his operation for a day and be harangued by a very well fed public servant about drug and alcohol awareness, his required implementation program, steps to be taken in case of suspicion, annual reporting blah blah blah.
I'm sure public servants in other countries are taking note of this potential for more feather-bedded dogsbodies to be employed at tax-payers' expense for a very dubious return to these taxpayers. The world hasn't gone mad, Mr Speedbird, it's government employees perpetuating their own kind, inventing programs in the name of 'safety' to justify more of them to leech off the ever-reducing numbers of people who actually produce goods and services.
Random-testing one of our guys after a nine-hour flight (see my previous post) wtf? Did these idiots think that the F/O had had a quick 'nip' to settle the nerves for landing? The pilot involved actually commented to the testing Jobsworth that fatigue was more of an issue; the eyes just glazed over...
A friend with an AOC (just joy flights for Pete's sake) had to shut down his operation for a day and be harangued by a very well fed public servant about drug and alcohol awareness, his required implementation program, steps to be taken in case of suspicion, annual reporting blah blah blah.
I'm sure public servants in other countries are taking note of this potential for more feather-bedded dogsbodies to be employed at tax-payers' expense for a very dubious return to these taxpayers. The world hasn't gone mad, Mr Speedbird, it's government employees perpetuating their own kind, inventing programs in the name of 'safety' to justify more of them to leech off the ever-reducing numbers of people who actually produce goods and services.
Random-testing one of our guys after a nine-hour flight (see my previous post) wtf? Did these idiots think that the F/O had had a quick 'nip' to settle the nerves for landing? The pilot involved actually commented to the testing Jobsworth that fatigue was more of an issue; the eyes just glazed over...
The whole business is ridiculous. My company does random drug and alcohol tests on us but always after final block in.
You would think it would be better to do these tests before flight but how would you replace a failed crew member without incuring a delay ?!
You would think it would be better to do these tests before flight but how would you replace a failed crew member without incuring a delay ?!
So just WHAT is the point ?
I used to fly 14 hr sectors, would they think that the crew served us alcohol at the controls ? But maybe they'd want to congratulate us for successfully completing a demanding approach whilst totally plastered ?
I used to fly 14 hr sectors, would they think that the crew served us alcohol at the controls ? But maybe they'd want to congratulate us for successfully completing a demanding approach whilst totally plastered ?
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Unless it is written into a States' legislation, and therefore unavoidable, then I'd follow YorkshireTykes' lead and tell 'em to go to Hell.
When I was breath-tested, the first I knew about it was when two police officers arrived on my flightdeck at ETD minus 40 minutes. I had barely spoken to the security staff, so I have no idea what they had noticed about my body language. The police were not able to tell me the details of the security staff's report. That is unacceptable and is what needs to be changed.
We departed on time, and this surely would not have been the case had I told them to 'Go to Hell'.
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And...why is it unacceptable for the Police to come into your cockpit and ask for a specimen of breath?, its just like a random roadside breath test leading upto Xmas, if u have nothing to hide, why is it a problem???
I spend most nights during the week and a fair few weekends in various hotels around the world and don't seem to have too many issues getting a good sleep
just my view as frequent self loading cargo.
Regards
Neil B
I spend most nights during the week and a fair few weekends in various hotels around the world and don't seem to have too many issues getting a good sleep
just my view as frequent self loading cargo.
Regards
Neil B
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Fatigue
Hopefully someone will invent a fatigue test on day. Guess you will still get banged up for failing it though!.
New cars : Volkswagen UK
Couple more buttons, lights and alarms on the FD &
"Ladies & Gents, we're just stopping here for a quick coffee and leg stretch. Meet back here in 20 minutes."
Coireall .... Yes, I would doubtless have meekly complied, too, doesn't make it right tho' and of course I'm in no danger of having to put my money where my mouth is now !
VFR 750
Is it now acceptable, or even legal (?) for the Police, or others (?) to randomly wave breathalysers at anybody ? Anywhere ? Can they come into your office? If the travelling public reckon that all airline pilots are potential mass murderers by the possibility of having consumed alcohol before flight, then lobby to have it put into legislation - is it yet, I truly don't know ? - at least the pilots' will then have a chance to build in safeguards against corruption and malpractice. A motorist here in NZ was acquitted because he was able to prove that the operating constable had not received the proper training for use of the equipment, do the pilots know that some stranger waving a breathalyser at them is qualified to do so ? And who is ?
I guess in most countries it is unlawful to disobey a Policemans' demand, e.g. that you stop, when driving. I once stopped at such a demand at a roadside Census post. I'd been flying all night, I was knackered, I just wanted to get to bed, and of course I stopped at the outstretched hand, but I pointed out that whereas I had obeyed the lawful commands of a Police Officer to stop, there was no law that enforced me to answer the questions of the jerk with the clipboard, I had flown ... was tired... etc. so he waved me on !
Sleeping at night is rarely a problem, sleeping again in the middle of the afternoon prior to an evening departure often is, plus the added pressure of 'knowing' that one 'must' get some sleep, you, presumably, have the pleasure of knowing that you can sleep on the aircraft, and be reasonably refreshed on arrival, so no pressure to perform, so no problem, you could probably sleep like a baby.
I knew of some who would take a sleeping pill, but they were regarded with the same suspicion that society now reserves for those on 'P' ! "Pilots on drugs !!! Shock, horror.
Just my thoughts, I'm bored with it now, and at my age I have no problem taking the post-prandial nap in the afternoon, even without alcohol, but then I don't have to fly all night, either !
From what I read of working practices in the industry now, fatigue is a greater potential killer than alcohol, and don't forget, it was accidents attributed to fatigue, not alcohol, that forced the bean counters into accepting flight time limitations in the first place, and decent hotels with rooms that could be made dark and silent ( most times ). Let's not slip back into the bad old days - I'm SLF myself, now !
Thinks ... the old Raffles Hotel in Singapore was the ideal crew hotel, the rooms were inside, nowhere near the road, they could be made black inside, and the personal air conditoner was like having ones' own Pratt and Witney in the corner, the steady noise was almost soporific, and kept anything else at bay, and best of all - when one eventually awoke in the middle of the afternoon, one could have a proper ' English' breakfast served on ones' own balcony by a white gloved waiter, with double damask knapkins and table cloth !!!! Happy days !
Enjoy.
VFR 750
why is it unacceptable for the Police to come into your cockpit and ask for a specimen of breath?
I guess in most countries it is unlawful to disobey a Policemans' demand, e.g. that you stop, when driving. I once stopped at such a demand at a roadside Census post. I'd been flying all night, I was knackered, I just wanted to get to bed, and of course I stopped at the outstretched hand, but I pointed out that whereas I had obeyed the lawful commands of a Police Officer to stop, there was no law that enforced me to answer the questions of the jerk with the clipboard, I had flown ... was tired... etc. so he waved me on !
I spend most nights during the week and a fair few weekends in various hotels around the world and don't seem to have too many issues getting a good sleep
I knew of some who would take a sleeping pill, but they were regarded with the same suspicion that society now reserves for those on 'P' ! "Pilots on drugs !!! Shock, horror.
Just my thoughts, I'm bored with it now, and at my age I have no problem taking the post-prandial nap in the afternoon, even without alcohol, but then I don't have to fly all night, either !
From what I read of working practices in the industry now, fatigue is a greater potential killer than alcohol, and don't forget, it was accidents attributed to fatigue, not alcohol, that forced the bean counters into accepting flight time limitations in the first place, and decent hotels with rooms that could be made dark and silent ( most times ). Let's not slip back into the bad old days - I'm SLF myself, now !
Thinks ... the old Raffles Hotel in Singapore was the ideal crew hotel, the rooms were inside, nowhere near the road, they could be made black inside, and the personal air conditoner was like having ones' own Pratt and Witney in the corner, the steady noise was almost soporific, and kept anything else at bay, and best of all - when one eventually awoke in the middle of the afternoon, one could have a proper ' English' breakfast served on ones' own balcony by a white gloved waiter, with double damask knapkins and table cloth !!!! Happy days !
Enjoy.
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 27th Feb 2011 at 21:32.
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I hasten to say that I am a shipping pro, but we have very much the same problems, maybe worse now. My objection is........does this all apply to the office staff?