Bonds for UPGRADES? And what if the airline GOES UNDER?
Guest
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"As to your question with regard to bonding for command upgrade, I am quite genuinely horrified to hear you speak of this. Are you suggesting that there are now employers out there who seek to do this? If so, I for one would be very pleased to see you name and shame them on this site."
Rumour has it there's a company which used to have an Irish subsidiary that tried this on recently. On their home turf they found that it was illegal but it might not be elsewhere.........
Rumour has it there's a company which used to have an Irish subsidiary that tried this on recently. On their home turf they found that it was illegal but it might not be elsewhere.........
Guest
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Just checked with a friend who makes his living as a company liquidator, (yes - sad isnt it), he informs me that he has not come across a case in the UK,in aviation or otherwise, where an employee would be pursued for bonding fees. He also believes that to do so may be contrary to UK and European law, quite apart from the fact that it would not be worth their time time to do so.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Guest
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Sounds like your friend doesn't know much about aviation!
Read this:
http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/gen/bonding.html
Read this:
http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/gen/bonding.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Good grief, Tilii - do you get a kick out of being an idiot? 
DownIn3Greenhas it pretty much correct - I was referring to a situation where a pilot is jumping from one type to another in quick succession at his own request.
Incidentally, DownIn3Green unlike the US, over here you do get type rated even as an FO - one of the (few) ways in which the CAA/JAA system is better than the FAA one.
DownIn3Greenhas it pretty much correct - I was referring to a situation where a pilot is jumping from one type to another in quick succession at his own request. Incidentally, DownIn3Green unlike the US, over here you do get type rated even as an FO - one of the (few) ways in which the CAA/JAA system is better than the FAA one.
Guest
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A retired pilots experiance of bonding.
It was Christmas eve 1973, my Dan air comet course (no bond) was cancelled on completion of the ARB and simulator, due they said to the Arab oil crisis and winter of discontent.
I was returned to their NC.based 748 fleet.
In Feb1974 I accepted a job offer with Gulf air on their F27.(no bond)
I was then called by Dan air to report for completion of the comet base training as the course was now on again.
I informed them I was about to resign.
This caused a Mr Atkins to telephone and inform me that if I resigned he would see to it that I would never work in uk aviation again,and I would not receive any more salery or any vacation money I might imagine I was owed.
I was then fired over the telephone,for electing the GF option.
A letter to the directors of Dan air explaining my treatment, and that I was also a shareholder in Dan air, and that I would put this lot in the Telegraph unless I got my money, produced a nice letter, from Mr Atkins secretary with all the money, and a nice reference, signed by Atkins.
I stayed with Gf for 26 years.No pension scheme.
They attempted a fundemental contract change with threats of sign or resign in 1976 but this was overturned by Sheik Isa, new hires were required to accept their new GF (N.1) contracts when joining, we pre August 1976 hires, remaining on the G contract.
I was never bonded on the F27 or the L1011. In 1989 I was offered a 767 conversion with a 3year bond, I signed as I was happy to secure a further three years work,
two minutes after signing I was presented with a further pretyped letter to also sign, this stated that "Out of gratitude to GF for the 767 course I agreed to give up the original G contact conditions" in effect since 1974.. This new N (around N mark 12 by now) contract was £10000.00pa IMHO worse.
It was explained to me that other G contract pilots had already signed this G away as they badly wanted the 767. I explained that with over 15 years service this was not really very nice treatment and that I intended to stay until 60years old, meanwhile I would have to stop flying the L1011 as I was quite upset, also that they would need a L1011 captain to operate in 5 hours time to India and for the next 4days.
After some back and forth between offices and no doubt pilot rostering, I was allowed to remain on the G contract, but warned this confrontational attitude (of mine) had been noted.
Thus rested, refreshed, and unstressed, I joyfully operated that night, taking 250 lives to India.
Pilots who signed away their G contracts already had Sia 747 ready jobs on condition they had boeing glass cockpit training and indeed one N contract pilot resigned on completion of his 767 command final line check, paying his bond with his government indemnity fund.
GF is today around 15 crews short for the summer season on the 767.and have mislaid or lost an Airbus 330 engine.
Bonding of pilots and engineers does not really seem to work. I feel a good pension scheme would do the job better.
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We will do the drill according to the amendments to the amendments I er think?
It was Christmas eve 1973, my Dan air comet course (no bond) was cancelled on completion of the ARB and simulator, due they said to the Arab oil crisis and winter of discontent.
I was returned to their NC.based 748 fleet.
In Feb1974 I accepted a job offer with Gulf air on their F27.(no bond)
I was then called by Dan air to report for completion of the comet base training as the course was now on again.
I informed them I was about to resign.
This caused a Mr Atkins to telephone and inform me that if I resigned he would see to it that I would never work in uk aviation again,and I would not receive any more salery or any vacation money I might imagine I was owed.
I was then fired over the telephone,for electing the GF option.
A letter to the directors of Dan air explaining my treatment, and that I was also a shareholder in Dan air, and that I would put this lot in the Telegraph unless I got my money, produced a nice letter, from Mr Atkins secretary with all the money, and a nice reference, signed by Atkins.
I stayed with Gf for 26 years.No pension scheme.
They attempted a fundemental contract change with threats of sign or resign in 1976 but this was overturned by Sheik Isa, new hires were required to accept their new GF (N.1) contracts when joining, we pre August 1976 hires, remaining on the G contract.
I was never bonded on the F27 or the L1011. In 1989 I was offered a 767 conversion with a 3year bond, I signed as I was happy to secure a further three years work,
two minutes after signing I was presented with a further pretyped letter to also sign, this stated that "Out of gratitude to GF for the 767 course I agreed to give up the original G contact conditions" in effect since 1974.. This new N (around N mark 12 by now) contract was £10000.00pa IMHO worse.
It was explained to me that other G contract pilots had already signed this G away as they badly wanted the 767. I explained that with over 15 years service this was not really very nice treatment and that I intended to stay until 60years old, meanwhile I would have to stop flying the L1011 as I was quite upset, also that they would need a L1011 captain to operate in 5 hours time to India and for the next 4days.
After some back and forth between offices and no doubt pilot rostering, I was allowed to remain on the G contract, but warned this confrontational attitude (of mine) had been noted.
Thus rested, refreshed, and unstressed, I joyfully operated that night, taking 250 lives to India.
Pilots who signed away their G contracts already had Sia 747 ready jobs on condition they had boeing glass cockpit training and indeed one N contract pilot resigned on completion of his 767 command final line check, paying his bond with his government indemnity fund.
GF is today around 15 crews short for the summer season on the 767.and have mislaid or lost an Airbus 330 engine.
Bonding of pilots and engineers does not really seem to work. I feel a good pension scheme would do the job better.
------------------
We will do the drill according to the amendments to the amendments I er think?
