KOS evac
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KOS evac
Found video of the evac that happened yesterday in the greek island of Kos:
People getting off with suitcases, one slide shot into ground steps, rear service door and overwings never opened , flaps never lowered as per non normal procedure.........
Amateurs.
People getting off with suitcases, one slide shot into ground steps, rear service door and overwings never opened , flaps never lowered as per non normal procedure.........
Amateurs.
Two reports here...
Incident: AirExplore B734 at Kos on Sep 4th 2010, engine fire at the apron
Jet lands in Greece with engine on fire
The first suggests an engine fire developed during taxi / at the stand. The second report suggest the fire occurred in the air.
Incident: AirExplore B734 at Kos on Sep 4th 2010, engine fire at the apron
Jet lands in Greece with engine on fire
The first suggests an engine fire developed during taxi / at the stand. The second report suggest the fire occurred in the air.
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Shocking Footage.
What shocks me, Is that if in fact engine No.1 was on fire during landing, taxi then how on earh is there time to 1, Have stairs pre-positioned at L2, 2, Open the rear hold door, 3, 4, Have the A/C coned at the Starboard side? Have Dollys at the A/C ready?
Also, If a prompt evacuation is needed then why dose it take 45 seconds into the video to activate the slide at L2?
Also it is stated, that R2 is not used due to the Dollys in the way? Sorry, But If the ramp agents come to remove the stairs at L2 (with no matter of urgency it seems) then why can they not remove the dollys at R2? R Over wing exits? on the R side?
It just seems to me there is no organization or any professionalism within this evacuation. I can certainly see a few People getting called in for tea and biscuits over this!
What shocks me, Is that if in fact engine No.1 was on fire during landing, taxi then how on earh is there time to 1, Have stairs pre-positioned at L2, 2, Open the rear hold door, 3, 4, Have the A/C coned at the Starboard side? Have Dollys at the A/C ready?
Also, If a prompt evacuation is needed then why dose it take 45 seconds into the video to activate the slide at L2?
Also it is stated, that R2 is not used due to the Dollys in the way? Sorry, But If the ramp agents come to remove the stairs at L2 (with no matter of urgency it seems) then why can they not remove the dollys at R2? R Over wing exits? on the R side?
It just seems to me there is no organization or any professionalism within this evacuation. I can certainly see a few People getting called in for tea and biscuits over this!
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Fire truck driving through the line of running pax is another interesting phenomenon.
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I can certainly see a few People getting called in for tea and biscuits over this!
One thing that is interesting in almost all recent evacs is that the pax disregard the announcements an most will take their belongings with them.
I have seen a video taken from a mobile phone of a pax ( yes they also now stop to take films while evacuating) out of AF/Toronto and it looked more like a looting party running out of a supermarket than an emergency evac.(but at least they did it in 90 sec )
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This has to be the WORST Pax Evacuation of all time, how NOT to do it, where do we start......Terrible!
No Doubt, Boeing will be scratching their heads, looking up their manuals, and reminding themselves what the requirement is for ALL pax to be off the plane in HOW MANY SECONDS?
Hey How about 4 MINUTES
this video is terrible
No Doubt, Boeing will be scratching their heads, looking up their manuals, and reminding themselves what the requirement is for ALL pax to be off the plane in HOW MANY SECONDS?
Hey How about 4 MINUTES
this video is terrible
Pax getting to the door, stopping, sitting on the sill, then sliding down - a properly trained cabin crew have a way of preventing that kind of dithering - a good shove in the small of the back.
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Quote:
Fire truck driving through the line of running pax is another interesting phenomenon.
Quote
Perhaps not that unusual. I've seen seen similar with the London Fire Brigade responding to a hotel alarm and the Grampian Fire Brigade whilst responding to an alarm at the Aberdeen Convention Center.
Fire truck driving through the line of running pax is another interesting phenomenon.
Quote
Perhaps not that unusual. I've seen seen similar with the London Fire Brigade responding to a hotel alarm and the Grampian Fire Brigade whilst responding to an alarm at the Aberdeen Convention Center.
only it looks a bit odd to me.
Last edited by TBSC; 7th Sep 2010 at 00:22.
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When the video opens we see the aft cargo door already open with baggage carts in place, cones had already been placed forward of the wings and rear steps positioned close to the a/c. This indicates that the beacon had been switched off (safe to approach a/c) for at least a couple of minutes when the crew became aware of a fire.
Nothing ever happens like it does in the sim. Cabin crew are trained only to use exits and deploy slides where it is visually clear of obstructions outside and free of hazard such as fire. It appears as if the deployment areas of both rear slides at doors 2L+R were blocked by ground equipment so were not used by the crew.
With all the pax standing up in the cabin ready to get off I am not surprised everyone ignored the overwing exits.... the pax would have been in the mindset of going forward or aft to make a normal exit, and no crew would be by the overwings on the ground. The doors would have already been put to manual so all escape slides would be in the wrong config.
This seems to be and after-shutdown fire at the most awkward of moments with everything and everybody in the wrong place.
Perhaps you should devote some thought to how you would best managed it?
Nothing ever happens like it does in the sim. Cabin crew are trained only to use exits and deploy slides where it is visually clear of obstructions outside and free of hazard such as fire. It appears as if the deployment areas of both rear slides at doors 2L+R were blocked by ground equipment so were not used by the crew.
With all the pax standing up in the cabin ready to get off I am not surprised everyone ignored the overwing exits.... the pax would have been in the mindset of going forward or aft to make a normal exit, and no crew would be by the overwings on the ground. The doors would have already been put to manual so all escape slides would be in the wrong config.
This seems to be and after-shutdown fire at the most awkward of moments with everything and everybody in the wrong place.
Perhaps you should devote some thought to how you would best managed it?
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As Magplug says - a challenging exercise and I am not sure how I would react to that scenario. It would appear that pax steps are sort of 'in place' front and rear but presumably the decision was taken not to use them due to the 'fire' or the brave ground staff had scarpered when they saw smoke etc before they were moved up close?
Back to the 'Jet Airways' thread. How many of you would remember to lower the flaps (electric hydraulics still on, or on standby switch?) and get the pax to move away from the front door? There would, in that scenario, be one usable slide and two overwings on the starboard side. Passengers would already probably have their hand-baggage out of the lockers and in their hands.
Perhaps maybepilot and others would like to tell us how they would have reacted in the time available - as 'professionals'?
Back to the 'Jet Airways' thread. How many of you would remember to lower the flaps (electric hydraulics still on, or on standby switch?) and get the pax to move away from the front door? There would, in that scenario, be one usable slide and two overwings on the starboard side. Passengers would already probably have their hand-baggage out of the lockers and in their hands.
Perhaps maybepilot and others would like to tell us how they would have reacted in the time available - as 'professionals'?
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Correct, at my company we are trained not to operate a door if ground equipment is in the way. On the 737 it is quite difficult to get a full view via the viewing port on the door so the crew obviously believed that some of the slides were unusable.
As mentioned an evac on boarding/disembarking is the worst possible moment, as the doors are not ready, there is cr@p everywhere in the aisle and the pac are all over the place.
My guess is not only did the crew have to re-arm the doors, they would also have had to have made themselves seen/heard over the crowd and then do their best to keep bags from coming off too. Sometimes it's easier to just let the bag go than to stand in the door arguing about it while people fry. (Though personally I'd be lobbing it out to an empty space on the ground rather than letting them slide with it, but on the day- how do I know what I'll do?
Bear in mind also if the pilots/ground crew knew something the FAs didn't- quite possible they were instructed to only use certain exits- something you cannot know from a video.
One last point: Do we KNOW that this is an "evacuation" as opposed to a 'precautionary disembarkation' using slides? Would appear that way to me in the speed of the passengers... urgent enough to warrant the slides but not so to open overwing exits and have people braking bones etc...
As mentioned an evac on boarding/disembarking is the worst possible moment, as the doors are not ready, there is cr@p everywhere in the aisle and the pac are all over the place.
My guess is not only did the crew have to re-arm the doors, they would also have had to have made themselves seen/heard over the crowd and then do their best to keep bags from coming off too. Sometimes it's easier to just let the bag go than to stand in the door arguing about it while people fry. (Though personally I'd be lobbing it out to an empty space on the ground rather than letting them slide with it, but on the day- how do I know what I'll do?
Bear in mind also if the pilots/ground crew knew something the FAs didn't- quite possible they were instructed to only use certain exits- something you cannot know from a video.
One last point: Do we KNOW that this is an "evacuation" as opposed to a 'precautionary disembarkation' using slides? Would appear that way to me in the speed of the passengers... urgent enough to warrant the slides but not so to open overwing exits and have people braking bones etc...
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Yes, BB - I reckon that makes 3 of us who actually understand this problem. The rest of the popcorn-munchers above who have criticised the crew will probably snuggle down into their seats and hope no-one notices that they had - I doubt we will hear any serious suggestions from them.
I too assess this as a 'precautionary evac.' and actually give the crew a 'thumbs up' for a difficult scenario - and maybe 1 or 2 minutes to sort it out.
EDIT: Thanks HT - make that 4
I too assess this as a 'precautionary evac.' and actually give the crew a 'thumbs up' for a difficult scenario - and maybe 1 or 2 minutes to sort it out.
EDIT: Thanks HT - make that 4
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Question for the 737 pilots- is APU power enough to run the hydraulics to lower the flaps anyway? That is, if they were about to disembark I'm guessing they've shut down so *if* lowering the flaps for an evac was necessary- can it be done on APU power alone?
BOAC- there seems a propensity for people to assume that crew from certain countries aren't up to par, sad really as I'm sure there's plenty of shoddy crew in Oz, UK, USA etc...
BOAC- there seems a propensity for people to assume that crew from certain countries aren't up to par, sad really as I'm sure there's plenty of shoddy crew in Oz, UK, USA etc...
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APU will power the B elec hydraulic pump which will move flaps at a slightly slower then full rate - assuming the APU was serviceable, of course and (unlike Jet2) it was company policy to use it.
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