Time To Command ?
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About 6 months......
Well, the guy concerned was also less than 16 years old - joined RAF in early days of WW2, lied about his age, adding 4 years on - "Honest, Sir, my birth certificate got posted to you." He was 15 yrs & 6 days old when he flew in his first aircraft, a Tiger Moth. Went to Canada for his training & was awarded his wings when he was 15 years, 4 months & 9 days old!! Soon afterwards, as a Sergeant pilot, he was the captain of twin-engined Whitney bombers, flying operational raids.
The guy's name was Tom Dobney - only got caught out 'cos his mum (who thought he was helping the war effort by training as an air cadet) saw a photo of him chatting with King George VI, who had been touring air bases in East Anglia. Poor lad was discharged, aged 15!!!
He kept trying - got thrown out of the Fleet Air Arm, Air Transport Auxiliary & again, the RAF. Still, he finally got back into the RAF!
Well, the guy concerned was also less than 16 years old - joined RAF in early days of WW2, lied about his age, adding 4 years on - "Honest, Sir, my birth certificate got posted to you." He was 15 yrs & 6 days old when he flew in his first aircraft, a Tiger Moth. Went to Canada for his training & was awarded his wings when he was 15 years, 4 months & 9 days old!! Soon afterwards, as a Sergeant pilot, he was the captain of twin-engined Whitney bombers, flying operational raids.
The guy's name was Tom Dobney - only got caught out 'cos his mum (who thought he was helping the war effort by training as an air cadet) saw a photo of him chatting with King George VI, who had been touring air bases in East Anglia. Poor lad was discharged, aged 15!!!
He kept trying - got thrown out of the Fleet Air Arm, Air Transport Auxiliary & again, the RAF. Still, he finally got back into the RAF!
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DAT (SABENA daughter) 3 years from starting as a 350hour F/O! The training is good, people motivated and skillfull. But I just wouldn't feel comfortable going for command after 3 season and 2500hrs though. No mather how skillfull you are, you need some experience.
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DouglasDigby, heuuu, nice story but I guess the subject "time to command?" applies to multiple crew aeroplanes...
Anyway, LX, 2500 hours total minimum, 1000 hours multiple crew and at least 1 year on line with the company. For a rookie this equates to about 3-5 years with good qualifications.
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... cut my wings and I'll die ...
Anyway, LX, 2500 hours total minimum, 1000 hours multiple crew and at least 1 year on line with the company. For a rookie this equates to about 3-5 years with good qualifications.
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... cut my wings and I'll die ...
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Air 2000
2.5 to 3 yrs at the moment, if you can satisfy the hideous TICK system, too much pressure, one error in the simulator can penalise someone for up to 2 years, needs a drastic review.
[This message has been edited by vertex (edited 15 April 2001).]
2.5 to 3 yrs at the moment, if you can satisfy the hideous TICK system, too much pressure, one error in the simulator can penalise someone for up to 2 years, needs a drastic review.
[This message has been edited by vertex (edited 15 April 2001).]
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At SIA, 1000 sectors on aircraft over 5700kgs with up to half of these countable from previous operations. In real terms depends on which aircraft you operate as F/O.
Go to the A310 or B777 and you'll have the requirements in about 6-7 years. Those who went straight to the A340/B747 will wait up to 9-10 years.
Ab initios have a min. time bar also of 8 years as F/O.
These times have occasionally been achieved, but are often exceeded due to "operational indiscretions" viewed badly by those upstairs!
The earlier SIA entry was not entirely correct!
Go to the A310 or B777 and you'll have the requirements in about 6-7 years. Those who went straight to the A340/B747 will wait up to 9-10 years.
Ab initios have a min. time bar also of 8 years as F/O.
These times have occasionally been achieved, but are often exceeded due to "operational indiscretions" viewed badly by those upstairs!
The earlier SIA entry was not entirely correct!
Guest
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Air 2 bob is actually around 2 years in the company or less if you have the minimum requirements. Of course, if you are ex-military then you can get on a command course with less than the minimum hours stated in the Ops Manual, despite what your experience was when you were in the military. If you have stacks of relevant hours (eg. on same routes and aircraft) these will NOT be factored (like the EasyJet factoring as mentioned above).
Officially you need a minimum of 4000 hours with 2 seasons experience.
At 3000 hours you can get assessed in the sim as ready for command. You need to pass 2 sims to command standard (which is an unknown quantity) then you go onto line assessment for command. Then if you pass that you get to go on a course. There is a list but it gets used up very quickly. The main obstacle is the way the assessments and course are done. You are expected to be a competent Captain the moment you walk through the door on the first day of the course. There is no training before or after the course to bridge the gap from FO to Captain. If you fail you are meant to wait a set period, although this appears to only apply to some people.
Air 2 bob have a few new aircraft arriving in the next couple of years and what with people leaving too it means that there is virtually no waiting for commands.
[This message has been edited by Mr Benn (edited 14 April 2001).]
Officially you need a minimum of 4000 hours with 2 seasons experience.
At 3000 hours you can get assessed in the sim as ready for command. You need to pass 2 sims to command standard (which is an unknown quantity) then you go onto line assessment for command. Then if you pass that you get to go on a course. There is a list but it gets used up very quickly. The main obstacle is the way the assessments and course are done. You are expected to be a competent Captain the moment you walk through the door on the first day of the course. There is no training before or after the course to bridge the gap from FO to Captain. If you fail you are meant to wait a set period, although this appears to only apply to some people.
Air 2 bob have a few new aircraft arriving in the next couple of years and what with people leaving too it means that there is virtually no waiting for commands.
[This message has been edited by Mr Benn (edited 14 April 2001).]
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recirc,
There is zero chance of Air2000 changing the command selection procedure.That is the nature of the airline.
The chop rate for command courses recently has been high. Last year over 50% I believe. Two to my knowledge have failed already this year.
Having obtained your "command standard" base checks and having completed the required minimum number of "command standard" line flying assessments you are deemed capable of passing a command course.However this is clearly not the case as the failure rate would indicate.Now, either unsuitable candidates are being put forward or the command course is flawed.I suspect the latter.Also,if a command course is failed no credit is given for the aforementioned
"hoops" which have been jumped through and so, for example, a four year F/O finds they're effectively in the same boat career wise as an F/O who joined a couple of months ago.Consequently we have a number of experienced chaps who have had their confidence battered and whose morale is rock bottom.A sorry state of affairs indeed.
I think the whole process needs a rethink but,as I mentioned earlier,this will not happen.
There is zero chance of Air2000 changing the command selection procedure.That is the nature of the airline.
The chop rate for command courses recently has been high. Last year over 50% I believe. Two to my knowledge have failed already this year.
Having obtained your "command standard" base checks and having completed the required minimum number of "command standard" line flying assessments you are deemed capable of passing a command course.However this is clearly not the case as the failure rate would indicate.Now, either unsuitable candidates are being put forward or the command course is flawed.I suspect the latter.Also,if a command course is failed no credit is given for the aforementioned
"hoops" which have been jumped through and so, for example, a four year F/O finds they're effectively in the same boat career wise as an F/O who joined a couple of months ago.Consequently we have a number of experienced chaps who have had their confidence battered and whose morale is rock bottom.A sorry state of affairs indeed.
I think the whole process needs a rethink but,as I mentioned earlier,this will not happen.
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British European, Joined with 1500hrs(500hrs multi) all single crew. Command on the DHC-8 after 17 months with a total time discretion of 2250 hrs with one suitable for command assessment in the sim (2500hrs required in the ops manual), 1.5 yrs more to command 146 or barbie jet(CRJ) 3000Hrs Total required.
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Hey guys (&gals). Gimme a break.
Try NO, repeat, NO left seat upgrades for EX-PAT S/FOs EVER, for Kuwait Airways on ANY fleet, regardless of prior command experience.
Makes 10 years to command with CX seem downright generous.
Wind your necks in and do the time if you have the opportunity
Try NO, repeat, NO left seat upgrades for EX-PAT S/FOs EVER, for Kuwait Airways on ANY fleet, regardless of prior command experience.
Makes 10 years to command with CX seem downright generous.
Wind your necks in and do the time if you have the opportunity